J
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The chart is from this article: Congress is a Game, and We Have the Data to Show Who’s Winning

It would be interesting to see the combined contributions of each side as well:



Consumer groups got the shaft.
 
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J
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Koldfoot wrote:
So, it wasn't the do-nothing Congress.

Why?

Quote:
And, I suppose dems didn't control the more important half either.

The OP doesn't reference any Party...

Quote:
Apart from that, what is a consumer group?

Use Google or a dictionary
 
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Koldfoot wrote:

Quote:

The OP doesn't reference any Party...



Which Republicans does it reference? The non-political party Republicans?

It's Republucan/Conservative Intrests as opposed to X in the chart, not the Republican Party in Congress.

But that's all you've got? Only to try and protect your "side"? Sad...
 
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jmilum wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:

Quote:

The OP doesn't reference any Party...



Which Republicans does it reference? The non-political party Republicans?

It's Republucan/Conservative Intrests as opposed to X in the chart, not the Republican Party in Congress.

But that's all you've got? Only to try and protect your "side"? Sad...



You know he's just playing dumb. Leave it.
 
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Chad Ellis
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Quote:
jmilum wrote:
]And, I suppose dems didn't control the more important half either.

The OP doesn't reference any Party...


The chart references Republicans multiple times. It may be making a point about how consumer groups fared but it's not unreasonable to raise an eyebrow at the fact that all the "blame" rests with one party of a split Congress.

And, while "consumer group" can be looked up, how terms are defined is pretty important in any kind of analysis like this. There are some consumer groups that are grass-roots organizations working to identify and promote broad consumer interests and there are some that are interest groups of their own trying to speak in the name of folks they don't represent.

More fundamentally, the whole premise of the chart is that we can determine who is "winning" by a simple count of votes. This ignores the facts that not all pieces of legislation are of equal weight and that in a given legislative "battle" one side may initiate far more legislation. If one group pushes 20 new bills it wants and its counterpart pushes only 2 and all 22 bills are rejected, did Congress "shaft" the first group? If the second group had simply put forward more legislation -- even blindingly stupid legislation -- would that have changed reality or just the conclusions of this chart?

Using a small-town illustration, there are some groups in my Town Meeting who like to put forward legislation. Some of them put up Warrant Articles that have no support; they fail. (Others put up non-binding resolutions so people can vote for ponies and children.) Would the groups that put up bad articles have their views any more or less supported if they didn't bother?

tl;dr This is a pretty chart but the conslusion, "Consumer groups got the shaft" is not supported.
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Chad_Ellis wrote:
The chart references Republicans multiple times. It may be making a point about how consumer groups fared but it's not unreasonable to raise an eyebrow at the fact that all the "blame" rests with one party of a split Congress.

As I said above, the chart is not assessing blame, it is showing which Bills passes in relation to which interest groups supported or opposed them. It doesn't show every match up, but is sorted based on which groups are most frequently on opposite sides. The "Republican/Conservative" mentioned above are for interest groups with that ideology, not The Republican Party in Congress. The data also includes Democratic/Liberal, but it didn't sort as high in this metric and so was not included.

Quote:
And, while "consumer group" can be looked up, how terms are defined is pretty important in any kind of analysis like this. There are some consumer groups that are grass-roots organizations working to identify and promote broad consumer interests and there are some that are interest groups of their own trying to speak in the name of folks they don't represent.

I linked to the original article that provided the data sets if anyone was interested. As an example consider a Bill from the current Congress: "H.R. 161 - Natural Gas Pipeline Permitting Reform Act"

These interest Groups supported it:

Building trades unions
Republican/Conservative
Industrial/commercial equipment & materials
Electric Power utilities
Public works, industrial & commercial construction
Stone, clay, glass & concrete products
Chemicals
Natural Gas transmission & distribution
Oilfield service, equipment & exploration
Rural electric cooperatives
Special trade contractors
Construction equipment
Small business associations
Equipment rental & leasing
Metal mining & processing
Manufacturing
Plumbing & pipe products
Fiscal & tax policy

These opposed:

Environmental policy
Consumer groups

The actual organizations that made up the support which defined the interest groups are:

60 Plus Association
America's Natural Gas Alliance
American Chemistry Council
American Energy Alliance
American Public Power Association
American Rental Association
American Road & Transportation Builders Association
American Supply Association
Americans for Prosperity
Associated Equipment Distributors
Associated General Contractors of America
Association of Equipment Manufacturers
Distribution Contractors Association
Edison Electric Institute
Energy Equipment and Infrastructure Alliance
Frontiers of Freedom
Industrial Energy Consumers of America
International Union of Operating Engineers
Interstate Natural Gas Association of America
Laborers' International Union of North America
Metals Service Center Institute
National Association of Chemical Distributors
National Rural Electric Cooperative Association
National Stone, Sand & Gravel Association
National Taxpayers Union
National Utility Contractors Association
Plastics Pipe Institute
Portland Cement Association
Small Business & Entrepreneurship Council

And the organizations that opposed:

Center for Biological Diversity
Earthjustice
Earthworks
Environment America
Environmental Protection Information Center
Food & Water Watch
Klamath Forest Alliance
Lands Council
League of Conservation Voters
National Parks Conservation Association
Natural Resources Defense Council
San Juan Citizens Alliance
Southern Environmental Law Center
Western Environmental Law Center
Wilderness Workshop


Quote:
More fundamentally, the whole premise of the chart is that we can determine who is "winning" by a simple count of votes. This ignores the facts that not all pieces of legislation are of equal weight and that in a given legislative "battle" one side may initiate far more legislation. If one group pushes 20 new bills it wants and its counterpart pushes only 2 and all 22 bills are rejected, did Congress "shaft" the first group? If the second group had simply put forward more legislation -- even blindingly stupid legislation -- would that have changed reality or just the conclusions of this chart?

The analysis was more involved that what legislation was put forward. It assessed support or opposition to the Bills (they needn't be specifically put forward by any organization or interest group). So in your example of all 22 Bills failing: if Group A opposed 20 new bills and supported 2, and Group B supported the 20 and opposed the 2, I believe the chart would show ~ 90% support for Group A, and ~ 10% for Group B

Quote:
Using a small-town illustration, there are some groups in my Town Meeting who like to put forward legislation. Some of them put up Warrant Articles that have no support; they fail. (Others put up non-binding resolutions so people can vote for ponies and children.) Would the groups that put up bad articles have their views any more or less supported if they didn't bother?

Hopefully this situation is mitigated in Congress because not every proposed Bill comes up for a vote, and so the "bad" ones wouldn;t be included.

Quote:
tl;dr This is a pretty chart but the conslusion, "Consumer groups got the shaft" is not supported.

Mayhap, but it does show that with the definitions used, the 113th Congress voted against most of the Bills supported by Consumer groups, and voted for Bills opposed by them
 
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