Mike Loomis
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Hey all,
Looking at my shelf of games, I realize that I have alot of GMT games. Just today I received my latest- 3 Days of Gettysburg Third Edition. I eagerly opened it up and spread out the maps and pieces, and wow is this a nice looking game. The counters are really sharp.

And, that got me to thinking that I have been consistently happy with the looks of their games. Good stuff.
 
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Alex Sorbello
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A little change in the title whish should read:

Man, GMT makes some great games, good looking games! If only they would upgrade their quality of pieces other than the wooden blocks they would be #1!!!!

 
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Andrew C
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Agreed, but check out L2's games- though they produce just a few titles they are all fantastic games with the best "classic wargame" components out there (i.e. a game with chits and paper/heavy cardstock maps).
 
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Anttoni Huhtala
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i love the wood blocks and the durable cards. But please, please, please! No more thin paper maps. The one in C&C Ancients is so thin i can allmost see thru it. Good thick cardboard, like the box.. thats the way to go.

 
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Tony Nardo
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Granted, my opinion is biased, but I think they did a really good job with the wooden ships for Winds of Plunder.



(EDIT: OK, OK. It's not a wargame. The pieces are still good!)
 
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Bruce
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L2 Design Group does good work, but the games are pretty pricey. For the cost, I don't think they're worth it. I was rather disappointed with the quality of the L2 Russian Campaign components given all the oohs and aahs on BGG. I also missed the old AH hardbacked board, even if it was smaller. GMT does VERY nice work (1st Edition Twilight Struggle typos not withstanding) for a far more reasonable price.
 
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Richard H. Berg
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Components are a factor of economy of cost vis a vis what you feel the public you are aiming at is willing to spend for a game.

E.g., the Euro crowd is far more resistant to high cost games ($50+) than the histo-gaming crowd.

In pricing the upcoming redo of BLACKBEARD, many difficult decisions in terms of components had to be made to keep the game i na price range that would allow it to sell well. But, having seen much of the initial artwork for it, I think most everyone (there is always someone who is happier when unhappy) will find it visually stunning.

RHB
 
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Michael Barnes
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Quote:
E.g., the Euro crowd is far more resistant to high cost games ($50+) than the histo-gaming crowd.


Yet we constantly see these "How I spent my inheritance at Thoughthammer!" geeklists...

It is a shame that GMT can't match the production quality of say, the nicer Phalanx games...but that being said, as far as traditional wargame production qualities go GMT is pretty high up there. The RBM art is something of an acquired taste, but their layouts and maps are always very clear and practical. It's time to retire the paper maps guys.

 
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David Seddon
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I would personally like to see an extra couple of dollars on the price for a "deluxe" map as standard:

GMT deluxe = unbacked cardboard

Then, I would like to see backed boards as the new deluxe - i.e. in the style of AH maps of old.

I think WoP is having a thicker cardboard map as it's a Euro and that's what Euro players expect. That's a sensible choice!
 
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Admiral Fisher wrote:
I think WoP is having a thicker cardboard map as it's a Euro and that's what Euro players expect. That's a sensible choice!

As far as I've been told, WoP will have a hard mounted board like the one in Santa Fe Rails.
 
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The Real and Only
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toonces2 wrote:
Hey all,
Looking at my shelf of games, I realize that I have alot of GMT games. Just today I received my latest- 3 Days of Gettysburg Third Edition. I eagerly opened it up and spread out the maps and pieces, and wow is this a nice looking game. The counters are really sharp.

And, that got me to thinking that I have been consistently happy with the looks of their games. Good stuff.


Yes their second edition releases are usually almost perfect.
 
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David Seddon
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Quote:
As far as I've been told, WoP will have a hard mounted board like the one in Santa Fe Rails.


Cool. I thought it might be, but played safe so as not to get it badly wrong in a sense of disappointing people.
 
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Matt Burchfield
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Again I would ask, "Does the paper map, or thinner cardstock, really detract from your play?"

Seriously? I have paper map AH/Victory games from over twenty years ago that show barely any signs of wear despite repeat play. My copy of Across Five Aprils has a ton of plays on it. I have no problems playing on it. Is there something about today's gamers that makes them especially spastic and unable to play on a gameboard that is less than the thickness/weight of marble slates?

Either way GMT makes some damn fine games. Their development and playtesting are extensive. I don't mind paying $40-$50 dollars for their games.
 
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crackedlcd81 wrote:
Quote:
E.g., the Euro crowd is far more resistant to high cost games ($50+) than the histo-gaming crowd.


Yet we constantly see these "How I spent my inheritance at Thoughthammer!" geeklists...





Ya nailed it Barnes!

A couple of years back I suggested that a significant portion of what passes for EuroSnoot ego is invested in the showcasing of how cheaply mass quantities of games were acquired. It's astounding how many threads on BGG are devoted to lists of games people bought just so they could get the free shipping.

And Richard is right too... the typical Euro-specific gamer doesn't like high priced games... but that's mainly because it takes too few of them to hit the $150 free shipping level at Thoughthammer... which means a smaller box arrives, with less games... and therefore a shorter Geek List or forum thread about what a gamer stud they are because of their latest Fedex delivery.

Overall, I am easily as pleased with GMT's production and quality as I am with most Euros and FFG-style Ameritrash ... and some of my Euros are actually pretty cheap and shoddy, considering what they retail for.
 
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Brad Wagnon
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Just to stir the pot...devil

I like paper maps better than mounted maps for the following reasons:

1. Use on sheetmetal base for Wall Board setup. Even a heavier cardstock would interfere with magnetic mounting and counters. Not everyone likes this options, but I do.

2. Light weight. On some smaller games, this is not an issue. However, when contemplating the sheer weight and volume of the boards necessary for all the scenarios in 3DoG, any of the multimap GBoH series, etc. I think I'd prefer paper.

3. Overall cost. I would rather save $10 and forgo the deluxe treatment. I do like the option of deluxe maps, however, and will probably pick up a set for Paths of Glory and FTP.

4. More scenarios. I believe that companies are much more generous with additional scenarios when they just need to print out an additional paper map or two. I cannot imagine that many of the GBoH series would have ever included so many scenarios if the mounted maps were standard. Even cardstock maps might affect the cost enough to reduce scenarios in master box sets.

5. Wear and tear. I have seen those "old style" heavy backed boards disentigrate along the bend after heavy usage. Also, it just takes one dork to try and bend the boards backwards, and you end up with damage.

What I would like to see offered, that I have so far only seen from ADG is paper maps rolled, not bent. The would make for easier creation of laminated maps, which I do think would be a nice option in certain games.

Just my .02

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Ken B.
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Corey Hymes wrote:
I guess some people are never happy. GMT pieces are high quality.




Compared to other wargames, sure. Within their genre, you bet. But many games in many other categories outclass 'em by a mile. You have to understand that when someone criticizes wargame bits, they are doing so from a much different perspective--and due to the genre and the economies involved, such comparisons really aren't fair (though I have been guilty of making them myself).

I have to admit that GMT games are pretty nice compared to older wargames, for sure--especially the 70s and 80s. Man, those games were some UGLY BEASTS back in the day!
 
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Dean Zadiraka
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GMT not only makes good looking games, using good components, their games are all around good.

I recently bought another companies game, and the map is simply stunning, a piece of art rather than a game map. Unfortunately the map was made more in mind of being pretty than for it's functionality in the game. And, the game, aside from the appearance of the map, is bad.

GMT's components are beautiful, but more importantly they are extremely functional. Their quality extends to all aspects of the game, components AND the game itself. All aspects of the game are paid attention to, and the end result benifits greatly from this.

Just what they've done with color set up charts is great, as in Roads to Leningrad. High quality paper and the color adds so much usefulness in sorting out the counters. Their work just looks so much more professional rather than like it's made in someone's garage as some other companies turn out.

GMT produces game after game now of very professional, gorgeous, very functional, great playing games.
 
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Michael Barnes
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I'll tell you the one thing I REALLY like about GMT's games, other than the fact that they're mostly really good to stupefyingly incredible- they have a very distinct "branding" to them. You can look at it and just know it's GMT, and with that comes a certain standard of excellence. I'd go so far as to say that they, above all other publishers, have a better track record based on quality game designs than anyone else in the business today.

I do think they make some odd/not so good production choices though...the wooden bits in MANIFEST DESTINY were an ill-advised attempt to fool Eurogamers into thinking it was something they'd like. C&C:A really should have had a better board for the $70 price point (_no_ complaint about the blocks or stickers from me). TWILIGHT STRUGGLE...well, they just should have a)proofread the damn thing and b)printed 10,000 copies more than they did.

I don't care for the paper maps, as I said above. But then again, I'm probably the only person that likes those old puzzle piece boards...

WHATEVER! Hurray for GMT!
 
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Leo Zappa
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Quote:
I don't care for the paper maps, as I said above. But then again, I'm probably the only person that likes those old puzzle piece boards...


No, there's two of us! I have GDW's Imperium with the hard-backed puzzle board and that is an awesome idea that I am shocked has not been used more often. No warpage, no chance to bend-back the wrong way, fits nicely in the box, and still has that nice, hard-backed weight to it. Why don't more companies do this????
 
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Andrew C
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crackedlcd81 wrote:
I'll tell you the one thing I REALLY like about GMT's games, other than the fact that they're mostly really good to stupefyingly incredible- they have a very distinct "branding" to them. You can look at it and just know it's GMT, and with that comes a certain standard of excellence. I'd go so far as to say that they, above all other publishers, have a better track record based on quality game designs than anyone else in the business today.


Agreed- IMHO they are easily the number one wargame publisher today in terms of overall quality, consistency, game design, and number of titles. Certainly GMT games make up the lion's share of my collection.

L2, while their few games are excellent with fantastic artwork, can't match GMT overall. Other solid companies, but not in GMT's league, include MMP, Critical Hit, Columbia, Clash of Arms, Decision Games, and...well...Avalanche (though I tend not to like their stuff too much.) Of these second tier companies I favor Columbia and Clash of Arms.
 
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Geoff Bohrer
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desertfox2004 wrote:

No, there's two of us! I have GDW's Imperium with the hard-backed puzzle board and that is an awesome idea that I am shocked has not been used more often. No warpage, no chance to bend-back the wrong way, fits nicely in the box, and still has that nice, hard-backed weight to it. Why don't more companies do this???


Because, as game components go, it's hideously expensive. But yeah, I've got both the GMT puzzle-board Imperium (one of my all-time favorite games) and the semi-geomorphic puzzle-piece Mayfair "Hammer's Slammers". I do love locking boards.
 
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Steve Herron
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MadBrad wrote:
Just to stir the pot...devil

I like paper maps better than mounted maps for the following reasons:

1. Use on sheetmetal base for Wall Board setup. Even a heavier cardstock would interfere with magnetic mounting and counters. Not everyone likes this options, but I do.

2. Light weight. On some smaller games, this is not an issue. However, when contemplating the sheer weight and volume of the boards necessary for all the scenarios in 3DoG, any of the multimap GBoH series, etc. I think I'd prefer paper.

3. Overall cost. I would rather save $10 and forgo the deluxe treatment. I do like the option of deluxe maps, however, and will probably pick up a set for Paths of Glory and FTP.

4. More scenarios. I believe that companies are much more generous with additional scenarios when they just need to print out an additional paper map or two. I cannot imagine that many of the GBoH series would have ever included so many scenarios if the mounted maps were standard. Even cardstock maps might affect the cost enough to reduce scenarios in master box sets.

5. Wear and tear. I have seen those "old style" heavy backed boards disentigrate along the bend after heavy usage. Also, it just takes one dork to try and bend the boards backwards, and you end up with damage.

What I would like to see offered, that I have so far only seen from ADG is paper maps rolled, not bent. The would make for easier creation of laminated maps, which I do think would be a nice option in certain games.

Just my .02



Me too, I use the sheetmetal and magnetic clips to up my game up on the wall, if it is too big I have a corkboard wall and use pins.
 
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Tony Nardo
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Corey Hymes wrote:
So what your saying is that plastic pieces that fill up a board and have no information on them are more appealing than a well designed wargame with tons of info and some great options.

In most of the games with information-intensive pieces, there is no substitute for a counter. But in lighter wargames, and outside the wargame genre entirely, information that would be conveyed on a cardboard counter is often just as easily -- and far more aesthetically -- conveyed in wood or plastic. It's all in fitting the most appropriate pieces to a given game.

Besides, occasionally some of us enjoy a game where we don't need to put on our bifocals and squint over the pieces. devil
 
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Richard H. Berg
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"But in lighter wargames, and outside the wargame genre entirely, information that would be conveyed on a cardboard counter is often just as easily -- and far more aesthetically -- conveyed in wood or plastic."

That doesn't necessarily apply to "lighter" wargames - altho, as the term is reltaive, the definition will be subjective. I have some designs percolating that would be considered mainstream histo-games that could very easily use wood pieces. PAX ROMANA could have easily used them, for example; we just didn't consider it at the time.

Whatever, the level of what the market expects keeps getting upped. How far that will go is much dependent on how much that same market is willing to pay for what it wants.

RHB
 
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Ken B.
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Corey Hymes wrote:
So what your saying is that plastic pieces that fill up a board and have no information on them are more appealing than a well designed wargame with tons of info and some great options. Classy



Yeah, that pretty much sums it up. Glad I was clear on this.
 
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