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Subject: No reprint for Fantastic Four rss

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Darin Shaw
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In the post at the following link, Upper Deck confirms that they will not reprint the Fantastic Four expansion. Anybody know why?

Here is the quoted text:

"In Marvel Legendary news, Brenner also confirmed that the Marvel Legendary: Fantastic Four set from 2013 (see "'Marvel Legendary' Spider-Man / Carnage Set") will not be reprinted."

http://icv2.com/articles/news/view/30879/firefly-the-crow-as...
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I'd imagine it is also connected with Marvel ending all FF comics. With the FF rights currently in the hands of Fox, Marvel/Disney does not want to do a whole lot to promote an IP that they no longer have full control of. You're going to see the same thing with X-Men characters in the near future I suspect. Eventually, everything will come home to what Stan Lee created but that will take time.....and truck loads of money.
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Morten Monrad Pedersen
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There's a thread here with at lot of discussion and speculation about this: No more Fantastic Four confirmed?
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Jason Walker
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See this thread for a healthy mix of facts and crazy conspiracy theories.

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1274712/no-more-fantastic-f...
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Morten Monrad Pedersen
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TravelSized wrote:
See this thread for a healthy mix of facts and crazy conspiracy theories.

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1274712/no-more-fantastic-f...


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Jeff Connell
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dhshaw22 wrote:
In the post at the following link, Upper Deck confirms that they will not reprint the Fantastic Four expansion. Anybody know why?

Here is the quoted text:

"In Marvel Legendary news, Brenner also confirmed that the Marvel Legendary: Fantastic Four set from 2013 (see "'Marvel Legendary' Spider-Man / Carnage Set") will not be reprinted."

http://icv2.com/articles/news/view/30879/firefly-the-crow-as...


Cross posting is a big no-no.
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Tyrell Archer
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Unfortunate. There is, as many people have already stated, a number of theories about this and the associated X-Men license, many coming from an article at dorkly.com. That article has a number of truths, half truths, and untruths. Here is a summary:

1. Marvel is no longer publishing Fantastic Four comics.
True, but at the same time that the FF is ending, so is Avengers, New Avengers, and the entire Ultimate line (including Ultimate FF). This is more likely due to Secret Wars.

2. Marvel won't include the FF on multi-franchise covers.
Untrue. Dorkly has used Secret Wars #1 as an example; #2 has the Thing and at least 2 versions of Mr. Fantastic. Also possible that Invisible Woman is there, but how would we know?

3. Marvel won't allow sketch artists to do sketches of FF.
No idea, but it came from BleedingCoolNews. Not a reliable source.

4. No recent X-Men merchandise
No idea, but each film made fewer and fewer toys until X-Men Origins Wolverine merch didn't sell well, so it wouldn't be a surprise.

5. No new Fantastic Four or X-Men cartoons
True, but the characters have shown up in the existing series. On this one though, I can't blame them; an animated series is a major undertaking when you can't extend the license beyond the cartoon.

6. Fox held Sony's Spider-Man director hostage over a trailer
True; as in that Fox let Mark Webb out of a contract over an agreement to show an awkward and out of place trailer at the end of ASM2.

7. No new X-Men or FF characters introduced in comics.
Untrue; there have been many new characters in the recent X-Men series, and at least a couple of new FF characters (mainly villains).

8. Fox replaced Juggernaut with Quicksilver in X-Men DOFP to spite Marvel
Possibly, but more likely that it was a character they had access to that would have a better impact than Juggernaut in the film.

A bit long winded of me. What is the point? That there is likely not a conspiracy to erase Fantastic Four from Marvel's history. As far as the FF expansion is concerned, perhaps it did not sell well, or there was another business concern; perhaps 6 months from now we will learn that Paint the Town Red will also be cancelled, and GOTG after that. As gamers and comic fans both, we have a tendency to not see the forest for the trees.
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Richie Tran
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Your breakdown of an old article needs more research. There are plenty of sources since the Dorkly article, let alone other outlets coming to same conclusion. Most recent move from a comic book standpoint, Wanda and Peitro have been retconned into not being Magneto's children. Whether they will remain "mutants" has yet to be seen, but with Secret Wars retconning the entire Marvel Universe who knows, Inhumans seems to be the future "outcast with powers" team.
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Tyrell Archer
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Appreciate that; but I really was just summing up the main article. We still don't know what's going on with Quicksilver & Scarlet Witch. It seemed apparent to me that the folks on this specific thread weren't caught up, so I'm putting in my 2 cents to help update.
 
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Darth Ed
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I think the General discussion thread (linked above) is probably a better place for debunking or defending the various conspiracy theories as to why this is happening.

I'm not pleased with the implications for the Legendary Online League. The Fantastic Four expansion is still fairly widely available, but who knows for how long. At some point, it won't be available for new players to purchase, and we'll probably have to drop it from the Legendary Online League. That makes me sad because Galactus is one of my favorite masterminds and Invisible Woman and Silver Surfer are two of my favorite heroes to play.
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Erik Hatinen
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The No More...Four thread seems to have died, so I'll post here instead.

Tyrell does a fine job of disarming most of the 'evidence' of the lead article.

I'll mention a little more of my 'Think of this as a Business' approach. Companies have to care a great deal about how they look. This is especially true in companies that deal with artists and writers, which obviously includes Marvel. A comic that loses a popular writer or artist will lose readers, and a company that gets told off by a current or former artist or writer will lose them, too. This perception factor is critical for companies, so much so that companies have sacked good CEOs for being unpopular time and time again.

About a month ago two bit CEOs were canned. The McDonald's former CEO was axed after his company had a full year of no growth or shrinking. And a movie company CEO, who happened to be skilled, well-respected, popular and female, lost her job, too, after some racist comments she made about Obama came to light. (I don't know what she said, but they were reported to be at the very least in poor taste, so I assume racist.)

If you don't buy my assertion that CEOs are chiefly public relations people, look at that. McDonald's guy failed to reverse their shrinking market share for a year before getting sacked. Meanwhile, the movie company (I want to say Paramount) CEO is by all accounts very good at her job, popular and respected. But once her comments reach the public she loses her job.

This is a big part of why I think Fantastic Four the comic and expansion are going away: losing something because it's not making money makes a lot of sense. Dropping something out of spite would be Marvel shooting itself in the foot for the reasons I and others have mentioned.

Edit: Forgot to mention that I don't like losing sets either. Hopefully these turn out more like supposedly out of print books you can get, but being like out of print RPG books that take lots of time and money to get are very likely. I suspect I'd like using Thing and Human Torch or fighting the Heralds and Galactus (I don't have the set yet).
 
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Dave Roy
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The movie company in question was Sony.

The comments came to light in the infamous Sony email hack recently.
 
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Richie Tran
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Tsallak wrote:
The No More...Four thread seems to have died, so I'll post here instead.

Tyrell does a fine job of disarming most of the 'evidence' of the lead article.

I'll mention a little more of my 'Think of this as a Business' approach. Companies have to care a great deal about how they look. This is especially true in companies that deal with artists and writers, which obviously includes Marvel. A comic that loses a popular writer or artist will lose readers, and a company that gets told off by a current or former artist or writer will lose them, too. This perception factor is critical for companies, so much so that companies have sacked good CEOs for being unpopular time and time again.

About a month ago two bit CEOs were canned. The McDonald's former CEO was axed after his company had a full year of no growth or shrinking. And a movie company CEO, who happened to be skilled, well-respected, popular and female, lost her job, too, after some racist comments she made about Obama came to light. (I don't know what she said, but they were reported to be at the very least in poor taste, so I assume racist.)

If you don't buy my assertion that CEOs are chiefly public relations people, look at that. McDonald's guy failed to reverse their shrinking market share for a year before getting sacked. Meanwhile, the movie company (I want to say Paramount) CEO is by all accounts very good at her job, popular and respected. But once her comments reach the public she loses her job.

This is a big part of why I think Fantastic Four the comic and expansion are going away: losing something because it's not making money makes a lot of sense. Dropping something out of spite would be Marvel shooting itself in the foot for the reasons I and others have mentioned.

Edit: Forgot to mention that I don't like losing sets either. Hopefully these turn out more like supposedly out of print books you can get, but being like out of print RPG books that take lots of time and money to get are very likely. I suspect I'd like using Thing and Human Torch or fighting the Heralds and Galactus (I don't have the set yet).


Much like your analysis in the previous thread you refuse to face the facts that are present and you tend to divert the central points of view with irrelevant comparisons.

Fact: No new merchandise related to FOX-owned movie properties, outside the latest set of Pop Vinyls. (BTW the were comic-based X-Men ones)

Fact: Comic creators have said, not speculated, flat out said they are not allowed to create new characters for those universes.

Fact: Wanda and Peitro were retconned into not being Magneto's children.

Fact: Fantastic Four is getting canceled. Dark City also released in 2013, takes up more shelf space and more expensive is not getting canceled.

These are relevant FACTS. Not speculation, not comparisons to CEO of other companies. Your conclusion that just one guy at Marvel has this belief to bury the Fox-owned stuff, and he is holding down creators that want to do X-Men stuff. The evidence is there, whether you refuse to see it or not.
 
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Erik Hatinen
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"Fact: No new merchandise related to FOX-owned movie properties, outside the latest set of Pop Vinyls. (BTW the were comic-based X-Men ones)"

How about other movies? How often is movie merchandise made nowadays, and how profitable is it? These are sincere questions, not mockery. I don't have the time to look it up and haven't looked in a toy aisle for about 10 years.

"Fact: Comic creators have said, not speculated, flat out said they are not allowed to create new characters for those universes."

Whatever comic book series led by Cyclops and Emma has several brand new mutants, so this is preposterously wrong. So what about the article? Maybe it's a fake article. Maybe Claremont was making a stink. Maybe he wasn't allowed to then but is now. Maybe Claremont can't make them but Bendis can.

"Fact: Wanda and Peitro were retconned into not being Magneto's children."

How could this matter?

Just out of curiosity, is this movies-only or all of Marvel?

"Fact: Fantastic Four is getting canceled. Dark City also released in 2013, takes up more shelf space and more expensive is not getting canceled."

When I played White Wolf games, there was no shortage of books for many game lines where some books stayed in print and others did not. The ones that stopped getting printed were cancelled because they were no longer selling enough to warrant printing, while the ones still making WW money stayed in print. In particular, I recall that the people for the Mage Ascension game wanted to revamp its Players Guide but the bosses said, "No! The current one sells too well!"

My answer is simple: in all likelihood Fantastic Four isn't selling enough but Dark City is still selling, probably because the X-Men and Marvel Knights are more popular than the Fantastic Four. Upper Deck makes more because gaming shops ask for more, and they ask for more of things that sell, while the things that aren't are not reordered. The size comparison is definitely relevant, but shops exist to sell their wares, so carrying something big is fine so long as it moves quickly. If the Magic the Gathering people went insane and started packing the cards in shoe boxes the gaming stores would still carry them because they sell so well.

"These are relevant FACTS. Not speculation, not comparisons to CEO of other companies. Your conclusion that just one guy at Marvel has this belief to bury the Fox-owned stuff, and he is holding down creators that want to do X-Men stuff. Like I said in the previous thread, you are either naive or very stupid. The evidence is there, whether you refuse to see it or not."

Naive I can understand, but stupid is pretty strange. I have mental issues (OCD, ADD, Severe Depression and short-term memory issues), but stupidity is not among them.

Why is it stupid to think of a business as something that exists to make money? How is it not relevant to ask how nasty actions hurting an enemy company hurts the aggressor company? Does Marvel mainly employ people who aren't there for the money?

What do you think of or know about business?
 
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Robert Forrest
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Tsallak wrote:
How about other movies? How often is movie merchandise made nowadays, and how profitable is it? These are sincere questions, not mockery. I don't have the time to look it up and haven't looked in a toy aisle for about 10 years.


No matter how limited your internet time, it would have been quicker to type 'avengers merchandise' into google and gone to the first hit rather than, once again comment on something you don't know anything about:

http://shop.marvel.com/toys/mn/1000208/

(Or here: http://shop.marvel.com/d-characters/mn/1000001/ for apparel etc as well)

Check the drop down menu there for characters represented.

Marvel.com doesn't list even one X-Men or Fantastic Four product.
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Joe
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Tsallak wrote:
How about other movies? How often is movie merchandise made nowadays, and how profitable is it? These are sincere questions, not mockery. I don't have the time to look it up and haven't looked in a toy aisle for about 10 years.


I have. There is a ton of Avengers stuff in the toy aisles. I hadn't thought about X-Men not being present until reading threads like this and then I started to notice a very distinct lack of product for the Fox related Marvel stuff.

Tsallak wrote:
Why is it stupid to think of a business as something that exists to make money? How is it not relevant to ask how nasty actions hurting an enemy company hurts the aggressor company? Does Marvel mainly employ people who aren't there for the money?

What do you think of or know about business?


You are thinking too short term. There is more money for Marvel in the long term if they get control back of all their properties. Why should they waste money/resources on properties that will drive more profit to other companies? They would rather spend that money for stuff they control to increase its value and increase profits to themselves.
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Richie Tran
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I've been saying Marvel trying to bury Fox properties since Wanda and Peitro being called "Miracles" in Winter Soldier. So far the passing months just keep getting better and better for my theory. The big question is what happens after Secret Wars. My theory since X-Men is too big to just cancel, with Wolverine already gone, Gambit will be erased from the Marvel Universe, since there is going to be a Gambit film in 2016.

Facts do not equal whatever one is thinking. Also "lack of internet time" is not an excuse to be misinformed. Have an informed opinion or do not have one at all.
 
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Erik Hatinen
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"No matter how limited your internet time, it would have been quicker to type 'avengers merchandise' into google and gone to the first hit rather than, once again comment on something you don't know anything about..."

That would answer if the merchandise exists, but not how common or profitable toy lines are. I don't know how I could do that without getting a random sampling of different movies over the last ten years and then trying to find how much they spent on merchandise and how much those merchandise lines sold and made. That would be a massive undertaking.

I suspect that a toy line didn't do well, so fewer movies are getting toy lines for their movies. Had this happened, companies would be far less likely to take the time and energy to license them, find a company to make them, market them and so on. Also, maybe there are too many toy lines being sold at the moment or maybe the toy making companies Marvel or Sony wanted to use are too busy. "There aren't toys for this" does not necessarily mean the product line is being screwed.

"You are thinking too short term. There is more money for Marvel in the long term if they get control back of all their properties. Why should they waste money/resources on properties that will drive more profit to other companies? They would rather spend that money for stuff they control to increase its value and increase profits to themselves."

Marvel can't compel another company to sell their properties back. And a company that gets a reputation as a company of jerks or run by jerks would be massively damaged. Artists and writers are notorious for being fickle, and the crowd-drawing (and therefore customer-drawing) ones take a lot to attract and keep. I don't know any modern big-name artists, but were writers like Bendis or Whedon (Weedon? The Buffy and Avengers movie guy), they'd take hordes of fans with them. The most incredible example of that would be when Michael Jordan quit basketball and became a minor league baseball player. Thousands showed up to watch Jordan play even though it wasn't even basketball!

"I've been saying Marvel trying to bury Fox properties since Wanda and Peitro being called 'Miracles' in Winter Soldier."

Are you sure it wasn't Future Past? I saw Winter Soldier and don't recall any line about them. They definitely didn't appear in Winter Soldier.

"Facts do not equal whatever one is thinking. Also 'lack of internet time' is not an excuse to be misinformed. Have an informed opinion or do not have one at all."

Do you have any clue how condescending this is? I was thinking of asking readers of this thread just how stupid I am, and this made me decide to go for it.

People, please tell me just how stupid I'm being on a scale of 1 to 5. 1 is Really, Really Stupid, 3 would be average intelligence while 5 would be Pretty Damn Smart.

I don’t doubt for a heartbeat that several of you really believe someone or some group at Marvel wants to destroy the Fantastic Four and X-Men. You believe the F4 are already dead or dying. But you don’t seem to be thinking about what would happen if or when the bad guys did this. That’s why I’ve wrote about what happens when a company does nasty things or a CEO turns out to be a troll.

I won’t return the insults. I don’t buy into your reasoning here at all, but I would want to see multiple opinions on multiple threads before I decide you’re stupid. More importantly, you communicate well. And the hatred of big businesses or CEOs is a popular hatred. I assume your hatred has overpowered your ability to think clearly about this. If you don’t understand economics or business, it’s easy to think big businesses have buckets of money just lying around waiting to be used. It’s ridiculously wrong, but still a popular misconception. My own dad is highly intelligent, but hates the left so much that he actually thinks Obama isn’t “merely” damaging the US (a very common belief among conservatives), but Obama is damaging the US because he wants to damage the US.

I like to imagine his version of the White House is full of Democrats brainstorming new ways to destroy America. As wildly off-topic as it is, it might be funny enough for someone here to like it anyway. If you don’t care, just stop reading.

“I know,” Michelle Obama could say, “Let’s give ISIS a Stealth bomber with nuclear warheads!” Then she would fist-bump Teddy Kennedy’s ghost—which really is an Islamic terrorist sign, of course—and Michael Moore and she would beam as they discussed what would become a nuclear wasteland. Would ISIS nuke a Middle Eastern country or find a way to nuke part of the US?




 
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Joe
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Tsallak wrote:
"You are thinking too short term. There is more money for Marvel in the long term if they get control back of all their properties. Why should they waste money/resources on properties that will drive more profit to other companies? They would rather spend that money for stuff they control to increase its value and increase profits to themselves."

Marvel can't compel another company to sell their properties back. And a company that gets a reputation as a company of jerks or run by jerks would be massively damaged.

Right, and Fox is showing themselves to be massive jerks. Sony is playing ball with Marvel and Spiderman will be in future Marvel produced movies.

Tsallak wrote:
"I've been saying Marvel trying to bury Fox properties since Wanda and Peitro being called 'Miracles' in Winter Soldier."

Are you sure it wasn't Future Past? I saw Winter Soldier and don't recall any line about them. They definitely didn't appear in Winter Soldier.

Definitely in 'Winter Soldier', it was in an after credit scene. I would think by now that all Marvel fans know to stay through the credits to see what little scenes will be shown.

Here's a link to the Winter Soldier post credits scenes - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7UnH8OanmE

Tsallak wrote:
I don’t doubt for a heartbeat that several of you really believe someone or some group at Marvel wants to destroy the Fantastic Four and X-Men. You believe the F4 are already dead or dying. But you don’t seem to be thinking about what would happen if or when the bad guys did this. That’s why I’ve wrote about what happens when a company does nasty things or a CEO turns out to be a troll.


You are applying malice to Marvel's activities where there are good explanations that don't involve malice.

Marvel has a limited pile of money to work with (granted this pile is pretty damn big but it's not unlimited) so they have to prioritize their investments and ideas. Why spend money or resources working on the next great thing for X-Men or F4 and increase the value for those brands that will result in Fox making more money? Instead they spend that money on properties they have complete control of (or a working relationship with the rights holder ala Sony) to increase the value of that brand so those movies make more money for Marvel itself. That is only good business sense.

So they have Agents of Shield introducing Inhumans before the Inhumans movie comes out in a couple years.
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Tsallak wrote:
People, please tell me just how stupid I'm being on a scale of 1 to 5. 1 is Really, Really Stupid, 3 would be average intelligence while 5 would be Pretty Damn Smart.


1 without a doubt.

Your statements have no factual base and you lack any evidence to support your opinions. When presented with real facts you ignore them and present a counter-point based with no evidence and conjecture.

You thinking I was talking about DoFP and not Winter Soldier is a clear example of your lack of knowledge of the topic. Just walk down a toy aisle if you need more evidence for movie merchandise. Frozen, Despicable Me 2, Toy Story, Avengers 2, Guardians of the Galaxy, Amazing Spider 2 (still there in the toy aisle), Ninja Turtles, Sponge Bob Squarepants, LEGO movie, Transformers Age of Extinction. I just named 10 movies that have merchandise CURRENTLY in stores. See what you can do with FACTS?
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Quote:
I don’t doubt for a heartbeat that several of you really believe someone or some group at Marvel wants to destroy the Fantastic Four and X-Men. You believe the F4 are already dead or dying. But you don’t seem to be thinking about what would happen if or when the bad guys did this. That’s why I’ve wrote about what happens when a company does nasty things or a CEO turns out to be a troll.

Truth is truth. Perlmutter's reputation is no secret. There are plenty of highly successful people who also happen to be batshit insane. Maybe the former characteristic is a direct result of the latter. He's spiteful, but he's also one of Disney's majority shareholders, and he pinches pennies harder than a depression-era loan officer. The Fantastic Four hissy fit reportedly happened after the Legendary set was made, when Fox refused to negotiate about merchandising rights, or something.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/how-marvel-became-envy...

Perlmutter doesn't have much to do with the day to day, though. The artists and writers are treated pretty well, much better than the Land of Editorial Interference that DC has become. Bendis just got a fat, new exclusive contract. Writers are allowed to opt into or out of event tie-ins depending on what best serves their story. Fantastic Four characters can still appear in other titles, there's just not going to be a Fantastic Four book for a while (unless Secret Wars surprises us).
Quote:


This is a big part of why I think Fantastic Four the comic and expansion are going away: losing something because it's not making money makes a lot of sense. Dropping something out of spite would be Marvel shooting itself in the foot for the reasons I and others have mentioned.

F4 can be dropped out of spite because it doesn't make much money.

Sometimes I think people give you too hard a time on here, but you do seem to kind of ignore any evidence that doesn't support your narrative, without presenting any evidence of your own. "Another company is run this way, so Marvel must be the same" is a false equivalence, not evidence.



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Note: I wrote this after seeing Dog’s response to me asking just how dumb I am (last Saturday?), and since then have been away from Web access. I intend to update this, but my vulnerability to distraction is hard to exaggerate.

It wasn’t what I expected. To be frank, Forrest/Ed Grugg and Richie/Solja had aggravated me so much that I would have dismissed anything they wrote short of excerpts from a dictionary. And while I did read all the posts, I wasn’t keeping track of who wrote what or what the sources were. Just because I don’t know a source (Mondo and Diamond Select), that doesn’t mean it’s bad. I haven’t had large amounts of Web access for over a decade now. What part of the world changes more or as quickly as the technological world and the Internet?

I did a great disservice to several of you, most notably (in my mind) Dog, who I had not yet found out is a full-fledge scientist (a fact I find about as awesome as a sports fan discovering a new acquaintance is a Pro Football scout), but I think I already liked and respected him. If any of you were disappointed by Dog not going all-out and calling me stupid, he’s probably waiting to see my opinions on a sampling of things before passing judgment on my mental prowess. Scientists try to evaluate ideas instead of people. His response was a polite, measured slam. I clearly deserved it.

I didn’t take my own advice I used to give to my dad so often it started annoying him: even people you dislike can inform you. The late Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan had a fantastic remark about it: everyone is entitled to his own opinion but not his own facts.

If that wasn’t bad enough (and of course it is), that wasn’t the only case of me forgetting my own thoughts. I wrote in my first remarks on the No More Fan 4 thread that companies have acted stupidly at times in the past, and while most jerk CEOs get swiftly canned, not all do. I didn’t mention it, but a rare few loathed companies (cigarette companies spring to mind) keep aggravating people and do well anyway, too. Rare does not mean non-existent, but I was acting like it does.

The best excuse I can come up with is that I live in northern Minnesota, and it’s about as to the far left as a place can get (I’m not a Rush Limbaugh zombie, but still far more Conservative than Liberal). It doesn’t help that I live in a Board & Lodge, a step up from homeless shelter. Many of the residents here have criminal habits, many are insane, many are stupid and many have drug issues. Some have all of those issues. (I’m mentally ill.) I haven’t kept track, but at least 100 of the current or former residents have “reasoned” that all bosses screw people, so it’s stupid to show up for work on time or do your job while at work, because you’ll get fired anyway. Meanwhile, exactly two have mentioned things along the lines of “I want to impress my boss. He took a risk hiring me and I want to return the favor.”


I find this mentality not merely stupid, but offensive, too. It’s especially galling to hear these people bad-mouth the owner or manager where I live, as they’re not just compassionate, but border on saintly. (The owner actually gives the residents Christmas gifts!) So when I encountered this argument, to say it bugged me is an understatement. Clearly, some CEOs and companies really do make huge profits and still screw over their workers or otherwise act like jerks. And while there probably are some people here who have a low opinion of business in general, that’s a far cry from being so illogical you think it’s wrong that your boss fired you when all you did is try to seduce and then try to beat up your boss’s 15 year old daughter. I’m not kidding.

I agree now that Marvel has killed the Fantastic Four, both for financial reasons but also to spite another company. I’m still confused by Perlmutter getting away with it. In particular, the “No One Can Draw (List)” strikes me as incredibly illogical. I speculated quite often before on my side, so I’ll try the same for this one. The most sensible possibility to me comes from something another person wrote. Marvel sold those movie rights, most likely because it needed some quick money (why else would a company sell a source of revenue?), and Perlmutter has a reputation as especially tight-fisted. The board could be worried that a new CEO might return them to a state of poor money management and force Marvel to shed even more property rights. This explains why the Basic Set had two big Fantastic Four villains (Doom and the Skrulls) but zero members of the Fantastic Four. The X-Men and Spider-Man are probably too popular to kill.

The FF will probably come back. Every comic writer wants to create a great new character or team or series that captures the hearts and minds of us, but that almost never happens. And every time an amazing new series or character comes out, substantially more come out only to fizzle. At some point Marvel is going to bring them back, either to score some quick publicity and money or in a genuine desire to produce good stuff. Characters, especially villains, come back from death, retirement or the like all the time, and their returns almost always produce interest and money.

I have a few other things to add, but forgot I stopped writing this several days ago. Also, that hernia-like pain is back in a big way so I don’t know when I can next visit the library. Further, most of those responses would detract from me conceding that I was wrong, so this is good time to stop.
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Quote:
I agree now that Marvel has killed the Fantastic Four, both for financial reasons but also to spite another company. I’m still confused by Perlmutter getting away with it. In particular, the “No One Can Draw (List)” strikes me as incredibly illogical. I speculated quite often before on my side, so I’ll try the same for this one. The most sensible possibility to me comes from something another person wrote. Marvel sold those movie rights, most likely because it needed some quick money (why else would a company sell a source of revenue?), and Perlmutter has a reputation as especially tight-fisted. The board could be worried that a new CEO might return them to a state of poor money management and force Marvel to shed even more property rights.

Ike gets away with it because he saves the company millions of dollars and, as a major shareholder, it would be difficult to get rid of him even if you wanted to.

But again, that doesn't mean he isn't crazy. I don't think there is a tangible benefit from icing the Fantastic Four, at least not one that would damage Fox. Everyone knows the property now and taking away a book that only reached 30,000 people a month isn't going to make anybody forget. It's a dumb hissy fit, and he'll get away with it because it won't affect the bottom line.

It's largely agreed by industry insiders that selling the movie rights during the turn of the century bankruptcy pretty much saved the company.
 
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Parker McParker
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TLDR: Tsallak writes an awesome, humble post that apologises gracefully, contains an acceptance that he may change his view and containing background info that helps to put context to previous posts.

Is this the first time this has happened on the internet? I, for one, salute you Erik.

Mark.

Tsallak wrote:

SNIP
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Richie Tran
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Guess I would be aggravated too if someone debated circles around my opinions, but I don't because no one does that to me. Have an informed opinion or do not have one. Misinformation is far worse than no information.

 
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