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As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"

"Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him. As long as it is day, we must do the works of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work. While I am in the world, I am the light of the world."

After saying this, he spit on the ground, made some mud with the saliva, and put it on the man's eyes. "Go," he told him, "wash in the Pool of Siloam" (this word means "Sent"). So the man went and washed, and came home seeing.

His neighbors and those who had formerly seen him begging asked, "Isn't this the same man who used to sit and beg?" Some claimed that he was.

Others said, "No, he only looks like him."

But he himself insisted, "I am the man."

"How then were your eyes opened?" they asked.

He replied, "The man they call Jesus made some mud and put it on my eyes. He told me to go to Siloam and wash. So I went and washed, and then I could see."

"Where is this man?" they asked him.

"I don't know," he said.

They brought to the Pharisees the man who had been blind. Now the day on which Jesus had made the mud and opened the man's eyes was a Sabbath. Therefore the Pharisees also asked him how he had received his sight. "He put mud on my eyes," the man replied, "and I washed, and now I see."

Some of the Pharisees said, "This man is not from God, for he does not keep the Sabbath."

But others asked, "How can a sinner perform such signs?" So they were divided.

Then they turned again to the blind man, "What have you to say about him? It was your eyes he opened."

The man replied, "He is a prophet."

They still did not believe that he had been blind and had received his sight until they sent for the man's parents. "Is this your son?" they asked. "Is this the one you say was born blind? How is it that now he can see?"

"We know he is our son," the parents answered, "and we know he was born blind. But how he can see now, or who opened his eyes, we don't know. Ask him. He is of age; he will speak for himself." His parents said this because they were afraid of the Jewish leaders, who already had decided that anyone who acknowledged that Jesus was the Messiah would be put out of the synagogue. That was why his parents said, "He is of age; ask him."

A second time they summoned the man who had been blind. "Give glory to God by telling the truth," they said. "We know this man is a sinner."

He replied, "Whether he is a sinner or not, I don't know. One thing I do know. I was blind but now I see!"

Then they asked him, "What did he do to you? How did he open your eyes?"

He answered, "I have told you already and you did not listen. Why do you want to hear it again? Do you want to become his disciples too?"

Then they hurled insults at him and said, "You are this fellow's disciple! We are disciples of Moses! We know that God spoke to Moses, but as for this fellow, we don't even know where he comes from."

The man answered, "Now that is remarkable! You don't know where he comes from, yet he opened my eyes. We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly person who does his will. Nobody has ever heard of opening the eyes of a man born blind. If this man were not from God, he could do nothing."

To this they replied, "You were steeped in sin at birth; how dare you lecture us!" And they threw him out.

Jesus heard that they had thrown him out, and when he found him, he said, "Do you believe in the Son of Man?"

"Who is he, sir?" the man asked. "Tell me so that I may believe in him."

Jesus said, "You have now seen him; in fact, he is the one speaking with you."

Then the man said, "Lord, I believe," and he worshiped him.

Jesus said, "For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind."

Some Pharisees who were with him heard him say this and asked, "What? Are we blind too?"

Jesus said, "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains."
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quozl wrote:
Then they hurled insults at him and said, "You are this fellow's disciple! We are disciples of Moses! We know that God spoke to Moses, but as for this fellow, we don't even know where he comes from."

The man answered, "Now that is remarkable! You don't know where he comes from, yet he opened my eyes. We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly person who does his will. Nobody has ever heard of opening the eyes of a man born blind. If this man were not from God, he could do nothing."

To this they replied, "You were steeped in sin at birth; how dare you lecture us!" And they threw him out.


That's what he gets for making too much sense.
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For a text that wasn't written down until (at best) decades after the events it describes, the Bible includes a lot of direct quotes. I hope no adherents quote this stuff as "gospel" truth. Like so many ancient histories it is at best a parable or an oral history version of a conversation that may or may not have happened.
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quozl wrote:
As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"

"Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him. As long as it is day, we must do the works of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work. While I am in the world, I am the light of the world."

After saying this, he spit on the ground, made some mud with the saliva, and put it on the man's eyes. "Go," he told him, "wash in the Pool of Siloam" (this word means "Sent"). So the man went and washed, and came home seeing.

His neighbors and those who had formerly seen him begging asked, "Isn't this the same man who used to sit and beg?" Some claimed that he was.

Others said, "No, he only looks like him."

But he himself insisted, "I am the man."

"How then were your eyes opened?" they asked.

He replied, "The man they call Jesus made some mud and put it on my eyes. He told me to go to Siloam and wash. So I went and washed, and then I could see."

"Where is this man?" they asked him.

"I don't know," he said.

They brought to the Pharisees the man who had been blind. Now the day on which Jesus had made the mud and opened the man's eyes was a Sabbath. Therefore the Pharisees also asked him how he had received his sight. "He put mud on my eyes," the man replied, "and I washed, and now I see."

Some of the Pharisees said, "This man is not from God, for he does not keep the Sabbath."

But others asked, "How can a sinner perform such signs?" So they were divided.

Then they turned again to the blind man, "What have you to say about him? It was your eyes he opened."

The man replied, "He is a prophet."

They still did not believe that he had been blind and had received his sight until they sent for the man's parents. "Is this your son?" they asked. "Is this the one you say was born blind? How is it that now he can see?"

"We know he is our son," the parents answered, "and we know he was born blind. But how he can see now, or who opened his eyes, we don't know. Ask him. He is of age; he will speak for himself." His parents said this because they were afraid of the Jewish leaders, who already had decided that anyone who acknowledged that Jesus was the Messiah would be put out of the synagogue. That was why his parents said, "He is of age; ask him."

A second time they summoned the man who had been blind. "Give glory to God by telling the truth," they said. "We know this man is a sinner."

He replied, "Whether he is a sinner or not, I don't know. One thing I do know. I was blind but now I see!"

Then they asked him, "What did he do to you? How did he open your eyes?"

He answered, "I have told you already and you did not listen. Why do you want to hear it again? Do you want to become his disciples too?"

Then they hurled insults at him and said, "You are this fellow's disciple! We are disciples of Moses! We know that God spoke to Moses, but as for this fellow, we don't even know where he comes from."

The man answered, "Now that is remarkable! You don't know where he comes from, yet he opened my eyes. We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly person who does his will. Nobody has ever heard of opening the eyes of a man born blind. If this man were not from God, he could do nothing."

To this they replied, "You were steeped in sin at birth; how dare you lecture us!" And they threw him out.

Jesus heard that they had thrown him out, and when he found him, he said, "Do you believe in the Son of Man?"

"Who is he, sir?" the man asked. "Tell me so that I may believe in him."

Jesus said, "You have now seen him; in fact, he is the one speaking with you."

Then the man said, "Lord, I believe," and he worshiped him.

Jesus said, "For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind."

Some Pharisees who were with him heard him say this and asked, "What? Are we blind too?"

Jesus said, "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains."

Since this story is about a medical miracle that did not occur instantaneously and even required two intermediary physical mediums -- mud and Jesus' saliva -- in which to process it, our healthy skepticism should already be engaged because a flesh-and-blood being with metaphysical powers shouldn't require any intermediary medium to process a medical miracle. He should have been able to just will it into being.

For this reason, the Jesus of John 9 does not strike me as a flesh-and-blood being with metaphysical powers. He strikes me as a flesh-and-blood being with access to highly-advanced medical knowledge and medical treatments. For all we know, Jesus might well have used the fashioning of that mud poultice as a feint to disguise an apparent sleight-of-hand switch with the real stuff -- the medical poultice -- out from under his robes.

I also don't rule out the possibility that we may be missing some other details from the original story, such as the possibility that Jesus may well have told the blind man to allow the poultice to remain on his eyes for a proscribed time (like till sundown or overnight).

In my opinion, a flesh-and-blood being with metaphysical powers would not have required any physical medium to be present in order to generate a genuine miracle and it would have been instantaneous at that.


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ShreveportLAGamer wrote:
For this reason, the Jesus of John 9 does not strike me as a flesh-and-blood being with metaphysical powers. He strikes me as a flesh-and-blood being with access to highly-advanced medical knowledge and medical treatments.

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damiangerous wrote:
ShreveportLAGamer wrote:
For this reason, the Jesus of John 9 does not strike me as a flesh-and-blood being with metaphysical powers. He strikes me as a flesh-and-blood being with access to highly-advanced medical knowledge and medical treatments.


In your over-eagerness to go planet hopping, you overlooked one little thing: Could a being who's a hybrid of both human and extraterrestrial ancestry legitimately be called an "alien"?



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ShreveportLAGamer wrote:
For this reason, the Jesus of John 9 does not strike me as a flesh-and-blood being with metaphysical powers. He strikes me as a flesh-and-blood being with access to highly-advanced medical knowledge and medical treatments.


Let me get this straight. It's unbelievable because it's too believable?
 
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quozl wrote:
ShreveportLAGamer wrote:
For this reason, the Jesus of John 9 does not strike me as a flesh-and-blood being with metaphysical powers. He strikes me as a flesh-and-blood being with access to highly-advanced medical knowledge and medical treatments.

Let me get this straight. It's unbelievable because it's too believable?

No, it's more conceivably believable if you were familiar with and followed the historical thread of the Annunaki/Nefilim's influence and meddling in the affairs of humans throughout ancient history.


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ShreveportLAGamer wrote:


quozl wrote:
ShreveportLAGamer wrote:
For this reason, the Jesus of John 9 does not strike me as a flesh-and-blood being with metaphysical powers. He strikes me as a flesh-and-blood being with access to highly-advanced medical knowledge and medical treatments.

Let me get this straight. It's unbelievable because it's too believable?

No, it's more conceivably believable if you were familiar with and followed the historical thread of the Annunaki/Nefilim's influence and meddling in the affairs of humans throughout ancient history.




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mister lunch wrote:
ShreveportLAGamer wrote:
quozl wrote:
ShreveportLAGamer wrote:
For this reason, the Jesus of John 9 does not strike me as a flesh-and-blood being with metaphysical powers. He strikes me as a flesh-and-blood being with access to highly-advanced medical knowledge and medical treatments.

Let me get this straight. It's unbelievable because it's too believable?

No, it's more conceivably believable if you were familiar with and followed the historical thread of the Annunaki/Nefilim's influence and meddling in the affairs of humans throughout ancient history.


So, Mister Lunch, how do *you yourself* reconcile the notion of a supposedly metaphysical being requiring a physical-world intermediary medium -- the mud poultice -- in order to manifest a miracle?

After all, a genuinely metaphysical being should be able to simply will a miracle into existence without needing any physical-world catalyst to make it happen.

Can you think of any other human-healing miracle that Jesus was said to have performed which required some other physical-world implement in order to carry it out?




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Remembering that Jesus always did things for a reason, putting clay on the man's eyes and instructing him to go and wash it off may just have been to remind the blind man(and possibly observers) of when the prophet Elisha instructed the Syrian army commander Naaman to go wash himself in the Jordan River to be cured of leprosy. It's what it makes me think of anyways - I'm presuming the man would have had greater confidence that if he followed Jesus' instructions to also wash, he would likewise be healed. Being born blind, it's likely he never expected to ever be able to see, so I doubt he had previously been going around looking for cures. Jesus repetition of Elisha's methodology may have been enough for the man to at least want to give it a chance.
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Quote:
"Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him. As long as it is day, we must do the works of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work. While I am in the world, I am the light of the world."


Jesus denies that moral failings lead to sin, but still doesn't quite embrace Job's message - shit happens because. Stop asking why.

Also - another apocalyptic message. Night is coming. When? A million years from now?

Quote:
Some of the Pharisees said, "This man is not from God, for he does not keep the Sabbath."


I'm not aware of any prohibitions on miracles on Shabbat, LOL.

Anyway - this seems to reinforce what I interpret as John's main message - reject the OT completely and all who follow it. All of its strictures are foolish.


Quote:
Then they hurled insults at him and said, "You are this fellow's disciple! We are disciples of Moses! We know that God spoke to Moses, but as for this fellow, we don't even know where he comes from."

The man answered, "Now that is remarkable! You don't know where he comes from, yet he opened my eyes. We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly person who does his will. Nobody has ever heard of opening the eyes of a man born blind. If this man were not from God, he could do nothing."


The Pharisees have a point - who the heck is this guy to lecture them?

As for the former blind man... its not stated anywhere that God is the sole source of miracles. In fact (mentioned before), it explicitly says not to believe miracles as a sign of truth (Deuteronomy 13)!

If anything the Pharisees are failing here by not putting him on trial and executing him on the spot!


Quote:
Then the man said, "Lord, I believe," and he worshiped him.


He worshiped... Jesus the man? Uh...
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ShreveportLAGamer wrote:


mister lunch wrote:
ShreveportLAGamer wrote:
quozl wrote:
ShreveportLAGamer wrote:
For this reason, the Jesus of John 9 does not strike me as a flesh-and-blood being with metaphysical powers. He strikes me as a flesh-and-blood being with access to highly-advanced medical knowledge and medical treatments.

Let me get this straight. It's unbelievable because it's too believable?

No, it's more conceivably believable if you were familiar with and followed the historical thread of the Annunaki/Nefilim's influence and meddling in the affairs of humans throughout ancient history.


So, Mister Lunch, how do *you yourself* reconcile the notion of a supposedly metaphysical being requiring a physical-world intermediary medium -- the mud poultice -- in order to manifest a miracle?

After all, a genuinely metaphysical being should be able to simply will a miracle into existence without needing any physical-world catalyst to make it happen.

Can you think of any other human-healing miracle that Jesus was said to have performed which required some other physical-world implement in order to carry it out?






You need to prove that the Annunaki/Nephilim conspiracy has any truck outside ancient aliens theorists or that anyone participating in this thread, beside you, takes any of that seriously enough for you to keep bringing it up.

You also claim to know how a metaphysical being would behave, based on what? It's all so anachronistic.

As for me, I don't have an explanation. I personally don't want or need one. I don't know the intention of the author to include it or what inspired them to write it. They obviously were not concerned with continuity like production companies are with franchises like Star Trek, X-Files, or superhero comics. They had a story to tell and they did.
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dtolman wrote:


As for the former blind man... its not stated anywhere that God is the sole source of miracles. In fact (mentioned before), it explicitly says not to believe miracles as a sign of truth (Deuteronomy 13)!



The passages in Deuteronomy 13:1-3 actually state not to follow other gods:

"If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a sign or wonder, 2 and if the sign or wonder spoken of takes place, and the prophet says, “Let us follow other gods” (gods you have not known) “and let us worship them,” 3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer."

It does not state not to acknowledge miracles from the true God.
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gamesterinns wrote:
Remembering that Jesus always did things for a reason, putting clay on the man's eyes and instructing him to go and wash it off may just have been to remind the blind man(and possibly observers) of when the prophet Elisha instructed the Syrian army commander Naaman to go wash himself in the Jordan River to be cured of leprosy. It's what it makes me think of anyways....

Since people back then didn't have their own Torahs and since even if they did, the blind man wouldn't have been able to read one anyway, I very much doubt that being asked wash himself in the Jordan River would have been of any historically-meaningful significance to the blind man. Moreover, if such had been His intent, Jesus would not have failed to make mention of it.


gamesterinns wrote:
I'm presuming the man would have had greater confidence that if he followed Jesus' instructions to also wash, he would likewise be healed. Being born blind, it's likely he never expected to ever be able to see, so I doubt he had previously been going around looking for cures. Jesus repetition of Elisha's methodology may have been enough for the man to at least want to give it a chance.

So why didn't Jesus merely tell the blind man to go wash himself in the Jordan River straight off then?


I'll tell ya why: Because whatever was in that poultice was what did the job, NOT what was in the Jordan River. And I very much doubt that poultice was merely a combination of saliva and mud, either. In my opinion, all that would have been necessary for Jesus to have done was to employ a little sleight of hand to switch the mud poultice for a prior-made medicinal one he'd hidden in his robes.

Moreover, if Jesus had had genuine metaphysical powers, he could simply have willed the man healed on the spot and not had to engage in such a rigamarole in the first place.


Yes, Jesus Christ was indeed the Great Physician, but his practice was at the same time a lot more down to Earth than metaphysical but nonetheless not of this physical world as well.


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mister lunch wrote:
ShreveportLAGamer wrote:
mister lunch wrote:
ShreveportLAGamer wrote:
quozl wrote:
ShreveportLAGamer wrote:
For this reason, the Jesus of John 9 does not strike me as a flesh-and-blood being with metaphysical powers. He strikes me as a flesh-and-blood being with access to highly-advanced medical knowledge and medical treatments.

Let me get this straight. It's unbelievable because it's too believable?

No, it's more conceivably believable if you were familiar with and followed the historical thread of the Annunaki/Nefilim's influence and meddling in the affairs of humans throughout ancient history.


So, Mister Lunch, how do *you yourself* reconcile the notion of a supposedly metaphysical being requiring a physical-world intermediary medium -- the mud poultice -- in order to manifest a miracle?

After all, a genuinely metaphysical being should be able to simply will a miracle into existence without needing any physical-world catalyst to make it happen.

Can you think of any other human-healing miracle that Jesus was said to have performed which required some other physical-world implement in order to carry it out?

You need to prove that the Annunaki/Nephilim conspiracy has any truck outside ancient aliens theorists or that anyone participating in this thread, beside you, takes any of that seriously enough for you to keep bringing it up.

First of all, Zecharia Sitchin never appeared on the History Channel's "Ancient Aliens", and that was because he declined their invitation.

Second, in my opinion, Sitchin's theories credibly reconcile the ancient Sumerian history accounts -- the oldest accounts on record which predate the Torah by nearly 2,000 years -- with those of the Torah, Bible, and many, if not most, of the apocryphal books of the Bible. And the reconciliation of those accounts not only makes them a lot more down to Earth but also a lot more inspiring as well.

However, since I have no idea what you yourself meant by the "Annunaki/Nephilim conspiracy", you'll need to elaborate.


mister lunch wrote:
You also claim to know how a metaphysical being would behave, based on what? It's all so anachronistic.

Not at all. And guess what: Metaphysical beings don't need physical-world vehicles to travel around in, either. That's right: Metaphysical beings are supposed to be able to teleport themselves anywhere. And they don't have wings, either. (Yep, that's right: Angels don't have wings. They're just pictured that way to distinguish them from mortals.)

Since metaphysical entities don't require physical-universe vehicles to get around in, the "wheel" that Ezekiel saw was a physical entity, and the same goes for "chariots of fire" or any other type of sky "chariot" as well.


mister lunch wrote:
As for me, I don't have an explanation. I personally don't want or need one. I don't know the intention of the author to include it or what inspired them to write it.

So, if I understand you correctly, you've concluded that the blind man's healing story was possibly created out of whole cloth (the product of some future church scribe's imagination)?


mister lunch wrote:
They obviously were not concerned with continuity like production companies are with franchises like Star Trek, X-Files, or superhero comics. They had a story to tell and they did.

Although many, if not most, theologians have concluded that the "Let he without sin cast the first stone" story was written at a much later date than the author(s) of the Book of John and was likely a fabrication created out of whole cloth, what leads you to conclude that the same might apply to this story about the blind man as well?

Moreover, the issue is not "continuity" per se. The issue is: Why would a metaphysical being require two physical-world intermediary media to produce a bonafide miracle, especially since there's no written record that Jesus, the performer of those metaphysical miracles, never required any other alternate physical-world implements in order to perform such miracles. Indeed, all the others He performed were more or less instantaneous.

If you cannot credibly reconcile that rather glaring difference, then you might wanna consider adopting my theory about it.


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ShreveportLAGamer wrote:



If you cannot credibly reconcile that rather glaring difference, then you might wanna consider adopting my theory about it.




You haven't credibly reconciled anything for me either. And as I said in my original statement, I don't need or want it. I just don't care.

I wrote a really long response, then realized it was a waste of time.

It comes down to two things:

1. You assume too much. About me and what I said, and about author intent.

2. You claim you have knowledge you cannot possibly have.

I will not respond to you any more.


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ShreveportLAGamer wrote:
mister lunch wrote:
ShreveportLAGamer wrote:
mister lunch wrote:
ShreveportLAGamer wrote:
quozl wrote:
ShreveportLAGamer wrote:
For this reason, the Jesus of John 9 does not strike me as a flesh-and-blood being with metaphysical powers. He strikes me as a flesh-and-blood being with access to highly-advanced medical knowledge and medical treatments.

Let me get this straight. It's unbelievable because it's too believable?

No, it's more conceivably believable if you were familiar with and followed the historical thread of the Annunaki/Nefilim's influence and meddling in the affairs of humans throughout ancient history.


So, Mister Lunch, how do *you yourself* reconcile the notion of a supposedly metaphysical being requiring a physical-world intermediary medium -- the mud poultice -- in order to manifest a miracle?

After all, a genuinely metaphysical being should be able to simply will a miracle into existence without needing any physical-world catalyst to make it happen.

Can you think of any other human-healing miracle that Jesus was said to have performed which required some other physical-world implement in order to carry it out?

You need to prove that the Annunaki/Nephilim conspiracy has any truck outside ancient aliens theorists or that anyone participating in this thread, beside you, takes any of that seriously enough for you to keep bringing it up.

First of all, Zecharia Sitchin never appeared on the History Channel's "Ancient Aliens", and that was because he declined their invitation.

Second, in my opinion, Sitchin's theories credibly reconcile the ancient Sumerian history accounts -- the oldest accounts on record which predate the Torah by nearly 2,000 years -- with those of the Torah, Bible, and many, if not most, of the apocryphal books of the Bible. And the reconciliation of those accounts not only makes them a lot more down to Earth but also a lot more inspiring as well.

However, since I have no idea what you yourself meant by the "Annunaki/Nephilim conspiracy", you'll need to elaborate.

No Direct Response by Mister Lunch.


ShreveportLAGamer wrote:
mister lunch wrote:
You also claim to know how a metaphysical being would behave, based on what? It's all so anachronistic.

Not at all. And guess what: Metaphysical beings don't need physical-world vehicles to travel around in, either. That's right: Metaphysical beings are supposed to be able to teleport themselves anywhere. And they don't have wings, either. (Yep, that's right: Angels don't have wings. They're just pictured that way to distinguish them from mortals.)

Since metaphysical entities don't require physical-universe vehicles to get around in, the "wheel" that Ezekiel saw was a physical entity, and the same goes for "chariots of fire" or any other type of sky "chariot" as well.

No Direct Response by Mister Lunch.


ShreveportLAGamer wrote:
mister lunch wrote:
As for me, I don't have an explanation. I personally don't want or need one. I don't know the intention of the author to include it or what inspired them to write it.

So, if I understand you correctly, you've concluded that the blind man's healing story was possibly created out of whole cloth (the product of some future church scribe's imagination)?

No Direct Response by Mister Lunch.


mister lunch wrote:
ShreveportLAGamer wrote:
mister lunch wrote:
They obviously were not concerned with continuity like production companies are with franchises like Star Trek, X-Files, or superhero comics. They had a story to tell and they did.

Although many, if not most, theologians have concluded that the "Let he without sin cast the first stone" story was written at a much later date than the author(s) of the Book of John and was likely a fabrication created out of whole cloth, what leads you to conclude that the same might apply to this story about the blind man as well?

Moreover, the issue is not "continuity" per se. The issue is: Why would a metaphysical being require two physical-world intermediary media to produce a bonafide miracle, especially since there's no written record that Jesus, the performer of those metaphysical miracles, never required any other alternate physical-world implements in order to perform such miracles. Indeed, all the others He performed were more or less instantaneous.

If you cannot credibly reconcile that rather glaring difference, then you might wanna consider adopting my theory about it.

You haven't credibly reconciled anything for me either. And as I said in my original statement, I don't need or want it. I just don't care.

Ahhh, contraire! Contraire! You *cared* enough to respond to me just the same.


mister lunch wrote:
I wrote a really long response, then realized it was a waste of time.

Yes, especially since it was long on content but entirely too short on substance.


mister lunch wrote:
It comes down to two things:

1. You assume too much. About me and what I said, and about author intent.

Rather, you were unable to supply any reputable source to bolster your oown notion that there had been some sort of literary antecedent implied by Jesus' directive for the blind man to wash himself in the Jordan River. In other words, you washed out on that one.


mister lunch wrote:
2. You claim you have knowledge you cannot possibly have.

I only claim to have more confidence in the theories of Zecharia Sitchin since they more ably and credibly reconcile the inter-relatability of the ancient historical texts. What's more, since Abraham's father, Terah, was a priest in one of the temple complexes of one of the Annunaki/Nefilm of ancient Sumer, that makes Abraham's longevity no longer such a mystery because the lineage of the priests of ancient Sumer was alleged to have been a hybrid one (i.e. being of half-human and half-Annunaki ancestry). By virtue of having such a heritage, those hybrids were elevated to the priesthood. Since the Annunaki/Nefilim were attributed as having incredibly long lives, then it makes sense that a half-human/half-Annunaki hybrid's lifespan would be much longer than normal humans while not nearly as long as that of the Annunaki/Nefilim. Thus, Abraham's long lifespan is not so unusual once you connect the dots to his actual heritage.


mister lunch wrote:
I will not respond to you any more.

At least not until you've adequately read up on the subject anyway.



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ShreveportLAGamer wrote:
In my opinion, a flesh-and-blood being with metaphysical powers would not have required any physical medium to be present in order to generate a genuine miracle and it would have been instantaneous at that.


I think there's a big difference between "doesn't require it" and "never uses it".

Does this mean that you believe that the instances in the Bible where Jesus does perform miracles instantaneously were genuine miracles, or do you doubt the veracity of those, too?
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twomillionbucks wrote:
ShreveportLAGamer wrote:
In my opinion, a flesh-and-blood being with metaphysical powers would not have required any physical medium to be present in order to generate a genuine miracle and it would have been instantaneous at that.

I think there's a big difference between "doesn't require it" and "never uses it".

Does this mean that you believe that the instances in the Bible where Jesus does perform miracles instantaneously were genuine miracles, or do you doubt the veracity of those, too?

No, I don't; however, most of the others didn't require something absolutely metaphysical to accomplish them.

Indeed, making wine from water has already been accomplished with modern technology.







So think what the even more advanced technology of those who first taught modern humans the secrets of agriculture and vineyards might have done.


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If RSP was around back then, this chapter is probably typical of how an average thread would have went with the Pharisees - evidence presented, nit-picky bickering over minor discrepancies, people being accused of deception, logical inconsistencies, arrogance, insults, harassment...
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gamesterinns wrote:
If RSP was around back then, this chapter is probably typical of how an average thread would have went with the Pharisees - evidence presented, nit-picky bickering over minor discrepancies, people being accused of deception, logical inconsistencies, arrogance, insults, harassment...

First of all, if RSP were to have been around back then, it could only have occurred if there were advanced technology. And to the best of my knowledge, that could only most likely have occurred courtesy of the Annunaki/Nefilim. And they'd have to be around in abundance again for them to set up their equivalent of an intra- or internet network. And depending upon which faction of them were in control, only a few select humans might be given access to it anyway.

Oh, but guess what?

Having all the technology wouldn't matter anyway because the Book of John wouldn't be written for another 50 to 60 years at the earliest and the Pharisees wouldn't be around to debate it because the Roman Empire had already sacked Jerusalem by that time and the Jews were dispersed throughout the Roman Empire.

But then again, if the Annunaki/Nefilim had made their presence known around the time of Jesus' arrival in Jerusalem, then another scenario would have transpired that would have altered the course of history in other positive ways altogether and what would become to known one day as The Bible would read a whole lot differently than it does today.


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