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Xia: Legends of a Drift System» Forums » Variants

Subject: Ideas for underpowered ships? rss

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Peter Fleming
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My friends and I LOVE this game (as do you probably, which is why you're surfing this forum). There is one thing though, some of the ships are vastly underpowered compared to others. We all know which are the better ships, and which are lame. Has anyone experimented with house rules to augment certain ships?

Examples:
Persistent Memory has an impulse of 6 (instead of 3)
Ghost Stalker can spend one energy to add +1 once per turn to any die roll
Swamp Rat: Once per turn spend 3 energy to remove 1 damage (in addition stated ability)

If those ships had those abilities, I'd strongly consider taking them.

What are some of your ideas (if any)?

I've not tested any of this out, I was just thinking about this driving home from work today.
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Adam Sutphen
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Your examples seem a bit over powered...

Also, the 3 ships you listed are the most contested in my play group, Usually first player picks the persistent memory & goes pirate.
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alan Young
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usaegxf1 wrote:

Swamp Rat: Once per turn spend 3 energy to remove 1 damage (in addition stated ability)


Firstly why would you make the Swamp Rat better. it is already basically the most versatile tier 1 ship (atleast the strongest tier 1 combat ship).
If the 1 damage is a problem then couple Oversurge with Nano regeneration.

Also if you want more ship ability balancing there are a few house rules people have posted. the following link contains the adjusted abilities I use:
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1258720/house-rules
 
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Derek Dyer
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Quote:
Persistent Memory has an impulse of 6 (instead of 3)

I would be fine with something like this, but I'll have to pull out the shipboards and do some comparing to see if this is too good or not.

Quote:
Ghost Stalker can spend one energy to add +1 once per turn to any die roll
I don't really like the idea of giving ships more than one ability, there are a lot of different reasons, but mostly I just don't care for it. Does it carry over if you upgrade to another ship? Changing passive things about a ship, I'm fine with, or simply modify the abilities so that they are more equal.

However take into account that ships have different hold configurations and sizes, and part of that is based upon their abilities. Cold Phoenix for instance has one of the best abilities and worst hold configurations.

Quote:
Swamp Rat: Once per turn spend 3 energy to remove 1 damage (in addition stated ability)
Swamp Rat does not need any help. It has a fantastic ability, and this makes it ridiculously overpowered.
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Peter Fleming
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In our group the fight is over the afterburner or the re-roll ability. Those abilities get used every turn. Usually the rolling of a D20 (afterburner) picks you up 1 or 2 bonus fame points every game, plus extra movement. The re-roll of Easy Tiger is exploited to salvage (or mine or harvest)and make a thick stack of credits really fast. The last two times Swamp Rat was taken, it came in last. The degradation of the outfit due to damage, and having to repair damage on the outfit was too much of economic hindrance compared to the other two. The only time I took Persistent Memory, I never used its special ability. The movement saved on a successful roll (55%) of Ghost Stalker moving through a shield didn't seem to compete well with Easy Tiger and Numerator. I will check the link you provided. I'm sure my friends and I have missed something. Thank you for the input.
 
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Rav
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As said, Swamp Rat is one of the best ships with one of the few abilities which makes PvP work without modding shields.

Persistent Memory (maghook ship) is fine to me. It got used a lot in 4 and 5 player games.

Ghoststalker (pass through shields) is also amazing. For 2 energy, half the time you can make big shortcuts, and also visit outlaw planets without getting a bounty semi-reliably, as well as visiting lawful planets semi-reliably with a bounty.

I don't think any of these need a boost at all.
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Riley Crowder
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I suspect part of this is simply a side effect of your play group. Not a bad thing per say but with your groups play style they simply do not favor the tactics of the ships mentioned.
It probabaly says something about how they prefer to play.

usaegxf1 wrote:
In our group the fight is over the afterburner or the re-roll ability. Those abilities get used every turn. Usually the rolling of a D20 (afterburner) picks you up 1 or 2 bonus fame points every game, plus extra movement. The re-roll of Easy Tiger is exploited to salvage (or mine or harvest)and make a thick stack of credits really fast. The last two times Swamp Rat was taken, it came in last. The degradation of the outfit due to damage, and having to repair damage on the outfit was too much of economic hindrance compared to the other two. The only time I took Persistent Memory, I never used its special ability. The movement saved on a successful roll (55%) of Ghost Stalker moving through a shield didn't seem to compete well with Easy Tiger and Numerator. I will check the link you provided. I'm sure my friends and I have missed something. Thank you for the input.
 
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Peter Fleming
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Quite honestly the PvP aspect didn't seem to work as well as missions/trading in our group. Those who majored in trading, with a minor in missions were making money to upgrade ships and generating fame points faster than rogue players who weren't generating a lot of income trying to kill other players/merchant, and fighting off the missile attacks from the enforcer. It's not uncommon for one player to take the Numerator, with a D12 engine, explore 2 or 3 tiles, snag the exploration tokens, generating a fP, and 1,000 credits faster than an outlaw player getting a kill, and not generating any money.
 
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usaegxf1 wrote:
Quite honestly the PvP aspect didn't seem to work as well as missions/trading in our group. Those who majored in trading, with a minor in missions were making money to upgrade ships and generating fame points faster than rogue players who weren't generating a lot of income trying to kill other players/merchant, and fighting off the missile attacks from the enforcer. It's not uncommon for one player to take the Numerator, with a D12 engine, explore 2 or 3 tiles, snag the exploration tokens, generating a fP, and 1,000 credits faster than an outlaw player getting a kill, and not generating any money.


That's because shields are overpowered, not that these random ships are underpowered. Can't get money/fame and slow down the race if you can't kill other players.

That's why there's a dozen threads of how people change the shield rules.
 
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Derek Dyer
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I'm taking the opposite approach and slightly boosting Blasters, as well as adding an Ion weapon to take out shields.
 
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Will Angel
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Ive had no problem ever killing people when I have had Swamp Rat/Cold Phoenix missile strategy, but that's one of few cases of being able to combat effectively.

We have been toying with the idea of perhaps only being able to arm one shield per enemy attack on you, and only rearm armed markers at the end of the attacking players turn (Rather than at the end of each attack).

As for the OP, I'm not sure I like the idea of having secondary abilities on tier 1 ships, But I do think the Tier 1 ships could have a speed boost, make it a bit more viable to stay in your tier 1 ship throughout the game.
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Peter Fleming
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I played about 10 sample battles last night between various tier one ships. A simple tier 1 shield was often enough to mitigate most damage to acceptable levels against tier II weapons. Even trying to take out the merchant NPC often took 2 turns, and only resulted in 1 fP, + 1,000 credits. Cheap shields are effective against decent weapons (which explains all the forums). I think the solution is to not allow the re-arming of markers until after your turn (instead of after each attack). This forces the player to balance damage mitigation with movement next turn. Either that, or I saw a suggestion to make the 2nd arming of a shield cost 2 energy, and the 3rd arming cost 3 energy, which in a sense effectively does the same thing, drain energy to limit movement. It's snowing in North Carolina and the roads are a mess, so I guess I have the morning to experiment.
 
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Chris
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Came here hoping this was a suggestion for new underpowered ships. Level 0 ships would be ace!

Musty Cupboard's (Hold size 4, 5 energy spaces, impulse of 2i) special ability, "Meh", is that it can replace a Green LED in it's dashboard with a slightly brighter blue one. Costs 0 energy to activate!
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Brian M
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We've been fine with Swamp Rat and Ghost Stalker. Being able to overload missiles can give you a big offensive punch early, and being able to skip planetary shields is a useful movement boost and helpful for avoiding gaining a bounty or for getting into a lawful planet when you have a bounty.

I agree on the Persistent Memory though; the Mag-Harpoon is very hard to get use out of. We've been experimenting with giving it a longer range; allowing it to grab on to a ship several spaces away. We've tried both a range of 3 and "up to 1 tile away", but haven't used it enough to have a solid feel for what works best.

The underpowered ship you left out is the Tier 3 ship with the Replicator drive that can copy another ship's ability. Much too hard to use for too little reward. We've been considering having that ability also allow you to use your Tier 1 and 2 abilities twice per round.
 
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Peter Fleming
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My friend and I played our 4 least favorite ships (Ghost Stalker, Puddle Jumper, Swamp Rat, and Persistent Memory), each controlling two ships. First thing we did, is house ruled that markers may only be re-armed at the end of your turn. This made combat a viable tactic. Swamp rat destroyed 4 ships over the course of the game, netting me a total of 4 fame points (5 if you count that I picked up the ramming title). I did use the mag harpoon to decent effect 3 times, but 3 times over a 15 fP game is weak. I think maybe we will either increase its impulse to 5, or maybe increase the range of the harpoon to 2 or 3 hexes. As for The Replicator function, it didn't come out during this game, but maybe increase its range as well. I also read in a forum where someone house ruled an extra cargo slot. The ship that started out as puddle jumper finished dead last, but that's in part due to poor tactics by my friend (he refused to buy a shield), and some stunningly bad die rolling (lots of 1's and 2's for movements, lot's of 8's and 9's in nebulae). His other ship, Ghost Stalker->Lone Drifter->Constant Sorrow) ended up winning, just barely. We still think that Numerator's After Burner, and the Easy Tiger's Tac X ability easily out class the other 4, but maybe that's a test for another day.

Edit: I forgot when Swamp rat in his tier 2 phase killed another tier II ship, so he actually received 7 of his 14 fame points by killing.
 
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Derek Dyer
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I have also thought about increasing it to 2, but I think 3 would need some playtesting, not against it though. The primary reason of course is everybody knows you have it, and it can be pretty easy to avoid most of the time.

The advantage to Oversurge isn't just that it makes missile double-taps really effective, but it's versatile. It can be used to gain an extra engine activation for that extra push you need, and 4d12-1 movement is nothing to scoff at.
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