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Subject: Move factories (11.32, v1.01) rss

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Jim Patterson
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In the section on moving factories, the rules note that "City limits apply, as does the limit of 1 step per factory for the new location." I'm frankly having trouble parsing this. The first part seems to refer to the "one factory marker per area" limit described in 11.31, but I can't figure out what the second part of the sentence refers to.
 
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daron slaybaugh
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if i have read the rules correctly, then you can move one factory per CM point to a city each turn. next turn you can move another but only 1 factory point per city/CM.
 
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ralph kramden
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The wording is awkward in the rule book, but I think you are correct:

"Move Factories only of countries
at war to any friendly major city,
including a conquered major city like
Paris. City limits apply, as does the
limit of 1 step per factory for the new
location. Cost is 1sm per factory step.
Moved factories may not produce in the
Game Turn they move."

I believe it breaks down as follows:

1. "City limits apply" simply means you cannot move factory pips to another city if it would cause the limits of 1 factory pip per city size to be exceeded.

2. "as does the limit of 1 step per factory for the new location." This one actually means (i believe) that you may not MOVE 1 factory point to a city and ALSO BUILD 1 factory point for the city. They are just wanting to insure that the DESTINATION city does not increase by more than 1 factory pip per turn, per the normal rules.

3. "Cost is 1sm per factory step" indicates that it costs a full "1" strategic move (which cost 1 command point from the command cards)for each POINT of factory pips moved. The rules already discussed above also indicate that no DESTINATION city can receive more than 1 MOVED factory point per turn, and then only if the city does not BUILD its own factory point this turn.
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Mark Kwasny
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ralph123 wrote:

2. "as does the limit of 1 step per factory for the new location." This one actually means (i believe) that you may not MOVE 1 factory point to a city and ALSO BUILD 1 factory point for the city. They are just wanting to insure that the DESTINATION city does not increase by more than 1 factory pip per turn, per the normal rules.


I believe it also means that a city cannot have more than one factory moved to it in one turn. Say you have 3 factories in Berlin and want to move them out to a conquered Paris so that you can build more factories in Berlin. You could only send 1 factory to Paris in one turn. The other 2 factories in Berlin I suppose could be sent to other cities, but no more than one new factory per city from any source - whether moved into or built in the city.
 
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Jim Patterson
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ralph123 wrote:
The wording is awkward in the rule book, but I think you are correct:

"Move Factories only of countries
at war to any friendly major city,
including a conquered major city like
Paris. City limits apply, as does the
limit of 1 step per factory for the new
location. Cost is 1sm per factory step.
Moved factories may not produce in the
Game Turn they move."

I believe it breaks down as follows:

1. "City limits apply" simply means you cannot move factory pips to another city if it would cause the limits of 1 factory pip per city size to be exceeded.

2. "as does the limit of 1 step per factory for the new location." This one actually means (i believe) that you may not MOVE 1 factory point to a city and ALSO BUILD 1 factory point for the city. They are just wanting to insure that the DESTINATION city does not increase by more than 1 factory pip per turn, per the normal rules.

3. "Cost is 1sm per factory step" indicates that it costs a full "1" strategic move (which cost 1 command point from the command cards)for each POINT of factory pips moved. The rules already discussed above also indicate that no DESTINATION city can receive more than 1 MOVED factory point per turn, and then only if the city does not BUILD its own factory point this turn.


Thanks. I'm really still not certain, though it could just be me.

Point 3 seems clear enough. Point 1 is at the very least partially right. I agree that the rules indicate clearly that there is a "city limit" on the number of factory pips based on city value. Is, however, the restriction of one factory marker per area area described in 11.31 (Build Factories) meant to apply to all factories, or only to homeland ones? If it's the former (applies to all factories), then I'm still unclear on point 2, because then you couldn't have both an existing factory (augmented this turn or otherwise) and a moved factory in the same area. If it's the latter (applies only to homeland factories), point 2 still doesn't seem to quite track because (assuming point 3 is correct) a city/area could gain more than one step in a turn through a moved factory, so the general rule of no more than one new pip per turn is already violated.
 
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Jim Patterson
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mvkwasny wrote:
ralph123 wrote:

2. "as does the limit of 1 step per factory for the new location." This one actually means (i believe) that you may not MOVE 1 factory point to a city and ALSO BUILD 1 factory point for the city. They are just wanting to insure that the DESTINATION city does not increase by more than 1 factory pip per turn, per the normal rules.


I believe it also means that a city cannot have more than one factory moved to it in one turn. Say you have 3 factories in Berlin and want to move them out to a conquered Paris so that you can build more factories in Berlin. You could only send 1 factory to Paris in one turn. The other 2 factories in Berlin I suppose could be sent to other cities, but no more than one new factory per city from any source - whether moved into or built in the city.


Can a city have more than one factory, though? I'll admit to just skimming, but I don't see a setup that has more than one factory in an area at startup as a confirmatory example.

Edit: OK, I think I'm just being dumb about that. The restriction in 11.31 appears to apply only to building new factories, and the assumption seems by many others to be multiple factories allowed per area.
 
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Mark Kwasny
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jpat wrote:
mvkwasny wrote:
ralph123 wrote:

2. "as does the limit of 1 step per factory for the new location." This one actually means (i believe) that you may not MOVE 1 factory point to a city and ALSO BUILD 1 factory point for the city. They are just wanting to insure that the DESTINATION city does not increase by more than 1 factory pip per turn, per the normal rules.


I believe it also means that a city cannot have more than one factory moved to it in one turn. Say you have 3 factories in Berlin and want to move them out to a conquered Paris so that you can build more factories in Berlin. You could only send 1 factory to Paris in one turn. The other 2 factories in Berlin I suppose could be sent to other cities, but no more than one new factory per city from any source - whether moved into or built in the city.


Can a city have more than one factory, though? I'll admit to just skimming, but I don't see a setup that has more than one factory in an area at startup as a confirmatory example.


I was too sloppy with my wording. Each step of a factory unit is moved separately. So if I wanted to move the 3 factory steps from Berlin, I could use 1 strategic move and send one step of that factory to Paris. So now there would be 2 factory steps left in Berlin, and 1 step of factory in Paris. That is all that could go to Paris - one step of factory per turn. I could use a second strategic move and take a second step out of Berlin and send it to another city.

So a factory unit has between 1 and 4 steps. The limit on factory growth is per step. Only one step of factory can be added to a city in a turn. And only one factory unit will ever be in a city.

Note that there are no cities with a value higher than 4. Thus no city needs more than one factory unit with 4 steps. The USA and the Urals are exceptions - they can have more than one factory unit since they can handle up to 16 (USA) and 8 (Urals) factories.

Does any of that make sense?
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Jim Patterson
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Absolutely. Thanks for taking the time.
 
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