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Subject: Golden Geek Awards 2014 agreement & controversy! rss

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Aldie wrote:
sbszine wrote:
Digital Board Games should be a separate category for VGG awards. At present the board game ports dominate the VGG awards to the point where other types of video game are crowded out.

I don't know if that would alleviate the perceived problem.
If you filtered the games in each nomination category by genre (you already filter by year of release), you could have just board game genre games in the Best Digital Board Games category but not in the other categories. I think this would give the VGG site / awards a bit more cred.

See this thread for a discussion by VGG users: VGG Discussion Thread for 2014 Golden Geek Awards
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It's hard to say a people's choice award is "wrong". The people have spoken. But wow, I have a hard time believing Splendor was the best at anything last year. That game is the definition of insipid. Even Camel Up! seems more exciting (though I haven't played that one yet). If it is, this might be the only time I would agree with the SdJ winner over the Golden Geek winner, and that would be a disturbing trend indeed as the SdJ is usually some extremely light, not-great gateway game.

(Disclaimer: I am not anti-light game or anti-simplistic game. Biblios is one of my favorite games of all time, for example. I'm also a big fan of High Society, For Sale, Liar's Dice, and No Thanks!)
 
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Shampoo4you wrote:
But wow, I have a hard time believing Splendor was the best at anything last year.

The award isn't for the "best" of anything, so it's irrelevant. The award is "Game of the Year". It could be bad and be the Game of the Year. There was a time when Adolf Hitler was the Man of the Year.
 
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DaviddesJ wrote:
The award isn't for the "best" of anything, so it's irrelevant. The award is "Game of the Year". It could be bad and be the Game of the Year. There was a time when Adolf Hitler was the Man of the Year.

Umm... yeah... good comparison! shake

Somehow I doubt that a bad game will ever be responsible for the death of millions.

 
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Kaermo wrote:
Somehow I doubt that a bad game will ever be responsible for the death of millions.

I guess that proves it's even less problematical if it's the Game of the Year.
 
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Kaermo wrote:
Somehow I doubt that a bad game will ever be responsible for the death of millions.

I guess that proves it's even less problematical if it's the Game of the Year.

Well, I guess we can agree that the question whether Splendor should have won Game of the Year or not is not really one of the critical issues in the world.
 
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Let's say Splendor is just the best success of the year.
 
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Shampoo4you wrote:
But wow, I have a hard time believing Splendor was the best at anything last year.

The award isn't for the "best" of anything, so it's irrelevant. The award is "Game of the Year". It could be bad and be the Game of the Year. There was a time when Adolf Hitler was the Man of the Year.

If people didn't think they were voting for it to be "best" why else would they vote it number 1?
 
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Shampoo4you wrote:
If people didn't think they were voting for it to be "best" why else would they vote it number 1?

Because they thought it was the most appropriate choice for Game of the Year.
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Shampoo4you wrote:
If people didn't think they were voting for it to be "best" why else would they vote it number 1?

Because they thought it was the most appropriate choice for Game of the Year.

And just what do you think that meant to them in your mind?
 
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Shampoo4you wrote:
If people didn't think they were voting for it to be "best" why else would they vote it number 1?
There's no reason to think anyone voted it #1. If everyone voted it #2, that would probably be enough to win Game of the Year, as long as the #1 votes were split among a broad array of games.
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Shampoo4you wrote:
And just what do you think that meant to them in your mind?

Lots of different things, too many to enumerate. Probably the leading one would be something like "biggest contribution to the hobby". Or something like "game I enjoyed the most", which is still a lot different than "best".
 
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Eric Brosius wrote:
Shampoo4you wrote:
If people didn't think they were voting for it to be "best" why else would they vote it number 1?
There's no reason to think anyone voted it #1. If everyone voted it #2, that would probably be enough to win Game of the Year, as long as the #1 votes were split among a broad array of games.

I suspect it had a lot of less-than-one votes that put it over the top, but I'm sure plenty of people voted it number one as well, and that's what I have trouble understanding. Hell, I have trouble understanding putting it in the top 10 of 2014, and I neither think it's a bad game nor that 2014 was a particularly strong year for games (in fact, it was probably a very weak year overall).
 
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Shampoo4you wrote:
And just what do you think that meant to them in your mind?

Lots of different things, too many to enumerate. Probably the leading one would be something like "biggest contribution to the hobby". Or something like "game I enjoyed the most", which is still a lot different than "best".

True, but I'd still wager a large sum that most people who voted it game of the year did so because they thought it was the best.
 
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Shampoo4you wrote:
True, but I'd still wager a large sum that most people who voted it game of the year did so because they thought it was the best.

I would take the wager, but I don't see how it's testable.

I think if you asked people, which game would you vote for, the one you enjoyed playing the most, or the one that's the "best", you'd get more saying the former. And the former is influenced by lots of factors, such as how many other people like playing it.
 
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Shampoo4you wrote:
True, but I'd still wager a large sum that most people who voted it game of the year did so because they thought it was the best.

I would take the wager, but I don't see how it's testable.

I think if you asked people, which game would you vote for, the one you enjoyed playing the most, or the one that's the "best", you'd get more saying the former. And the former is influenced by lots of factors, such as how many other people like playing it.

I think you're waaaaaay overestimating the number of people who think that "Best Game of the Year" and "Game of the Year" are very different things. If they were, BGG would have two categories. In fact, I can't think of ANY award system that has BOTH a "Best of" and "of the Year" categories, the two concepts are far too similar for it to warrant two separate awards whether we're talking about board games, video games, movies, books, restaurants, or what have you.

And while, for me, I do think they are somewhat different things, I also think that even if there were two separate categories I would vote for the same thing in both 99% of the time.
 
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Shampoo4you wrote:
And while, for me, I do think they are somewhat different things, I also think that even if there were two separate categories I would vote for the same thing in both 99% of the time.

That seems pretty arrogant, but I am not surprised.
 
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Shampoo4you wrote:
And while, for me, I do think they are somewhat different things, I also think that even if there were two separate categories I would vote for the same thing in both 99% of the time.

That seems pretty arrogant, but I am not surprised.

I am immensely confused by your statement. But I am not surprised, as you tend to say either extremely obvious or completely incorrect things.

But sure, I'll bite. How in the world did you read arrogance into my statement?
 
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Shampoo4you wrote:
How in the world did you read arrogance into my statement?

Most people like things that aren't the "best" but just happen to appeal to them. My favorite restaurant in San Francisco is very clearly not the "best" restaurant in San Francisco, it's just the one I happen to like the most. The only way to get a strong correlation between "what you like" and "what you think is the best" is to place a very high value on your own preferences.
 
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I only lightly skimmed this thread, but perhaps the opposite is true, too many heavy strategy games have won in the past. More lighter games should have won in the past, but the people that played the lighter games ignored this voting and the old results are "incorrect".

In my mind it all comes down to "facts are negotiable, perceptions are not".

In any vote, it is the perception of the people voting. Your perception is different from the majority and this seems to bother you. The majority voted for Splendor, end of story. The majority has spoken. I am sorry of this bothers you.
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Shampoo4you wrote:
How in the world did you read arrogance into my statement?

Most people like things that aren't the "best" but just happen to appeal to them. My favorite restaurant in San Francisco is very clearly not the "best" restaurant in San Francisco, it's just the one I happen to like the most. The only way to get a strong correlation between "what you like" and "what you think is the best" is to place a very high value on your own preferences.

It is not in the least bit "arrogant" to think the thing you like the most is the best. Jesus Christ man, it's a matter of taste!

I suppose I should expect such a philosophy from someone who believes most of what people say is objective (according to what you said in the Mage Knight thread). Which, funnily enough, is one of the craziest (and most incorrect) opinions I have ever heard.
 
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Shampoo4you wrote:
It is not in the least bit "arrogant" to think the thing you like the most is the best.

Of course it is.

Quote:
I suppose I should expect such a philosophy from someone who believes most of what people say is objective (according to what you said in the Mage Knight thread).

You aren't too good at reading.
 
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DaviddesJ wrote:


You aren't too good at reading.

I have degrees and publications that say otherwise. I think perhaps you are the one having trouble with comprehension. Our conversation from the other thread went like this (paraphrased):

Me: "Almost everything people say is opinion."

You: "Actually it's not."

Me: "You're a crazy person."

Where did I error?

As for it being "arrogant" for thinking what the things you like are the best, you're probably in the tiny minority there as well. Because matters of taste are SUBJECTIVE there absolutely nothing wrong or arrogant about thinking your preferences are the "best" in their given category. It's all just opinion, what does it matter? (hint: it doesn't)
 
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Outside perspective (read opinion)

This reminds me of a family man episode I saw (one of like 12 I watched) where the main character and a chicken fight over multiple terrains over the course of the episode.

I am not meaning to demean here, honestly. I think it is good for people to have opinions and stand by them. I should carry a soapbox with me at all times just for the occasion.

But here is what 'I' see as the problem. Typing. I would almost guarantee you that if you two met and had a conversation, you would talk for a few minutes, play a game and be probably good friends. You may not see it through these typed posts, but that is only because of the mists of war found in the tide of the internet.

Empathy and respect cost absolutely nothing. Completely free for the taking if you are humble enough to but reach out and grab it.
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1nf1n1ty wrote:
Outside perspective (read opinion)

This reminds me of a family man episode I saw (one of like 12 I watched) where the main character and a chicken fight over multiple terrains over the course of the episode.

I am not meaning to demean here, honestly. I think it is good for people to have opinions and stand by them. I should carry a soapbox with me at all times just for the occasion.

But here is what 'I' see as the problem. Typing. I would almost guarantee you that if you two met and had a conversation, you would talk for a few minutes, play a game and be probably good friends. You may not see it through these typed posts, but that is only because of the mists of war found in the tide of the internet.

Empathy and respect cost absolutely nothing. Completely free for the taking if you are humble enough to but reach out and grab it.

Lol I have nothing against David, I actually agree with him quite a bit in RSP. But on this topic, I find his position perplexing at best.
 
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