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Fleet Commander: Nimitz» Forums » Rules

Subject: Bomb Runs, Naval Guns and Infantry Attacks rss

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Ken Latall
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Between the rules, the posts, the video shown on here, etc. I'm getting conflicts on when and who can be attacked.

When it says "infantry ashore", that means infantry in a foxhole or on the beach, correct?

Should the last sentence in the Infantry Step ("Infantry can only be targeted by Aircraft and Ships if there are opposing Land-Based Aircraft or Infantry on the Island.") be moved to the Bomb Runs Step as well as the Naval Guns Step?

Compare the above sentence from the Infantry Step with the next sentence in the rules, which is in the Attacking Island Forces Step ("Bombers in the Island Area, Ships in the Coastal Area, and Infantry on the Island, may only allocate Hits against enemy Infantry if there are currently friendly Infantry OR Land-Based Aircraft present on the Island.").

The 1st sentence says you need infantry ashore, the 2nd sentence says you don't need infantry, but can instead have land-based aircraft.

The 1st example in the Attacking Island Forces Step, mentions that you can't attack their infantry, but you can attack their land-based aircraft, which seems to add to the confusion.

It seems like there are 3 Steps that is affected by all this; Bomb Runs, Naval Guns and Infantry Attacks. If I'm missing something please let me know.

Can someone please clarify what is needed to attack the different enemies?

Thanks you very much!
Ken
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Barry Miller
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klatall wrote:
When it says "infantry ashore", that means infantry in a foxhole or on the beach, correct?

Yes. "infantry ashore" is both in the foxholes and on the beach.
REFERENCE: Pg 7, "When an Infantry starts a Battle on the Island, or moves from a Transport to the Beach, it is 'Ashore'”.

klatall wrote:
Should the last sentence in the Infantry Step ("Infantry can only be targeted by Aircraft and Ships if there are opposing Land-Based Aircraft or Infantry on the Island.") be moved to the Bomb Runs Step as well as the Naval Guns Step?

It would certainly make the rules easier to grasp if that sentence was also included in those paragraphs!

klatall wrote:
Compare the above sentence from the Infantry Step with the next sentence in the rules, which is ...

The 1st sentence says you need infantry ashore, the 2nd sentence says you don't need infantry, but can instead have land-based aircraft.

The two sentences are actually saying the same thing... that infantry can be targeted by an enemy only when that enemy also has infantry, or LBA on the island. Note that the first sentence also uses, "or".

klatall wrote:
The 1st example in the Attacking Island Forces Step, mentions that you can't attack their infantry, but you can attack their land-based aircraft, which seems to add to the confusion.

The example is saying because you do not have either infantry or LBA on the island with the enemy, you are not allowed to attack the enemy infantry. This is in line with the other excerpts you quoted.

Basically, what the game is abstracting is that you must have either infantry or land based aircraft on the island in order for your attacks against the enemy infantry to be effective. Whether you attack by ship, by air, or by ground, you must have ground forces on the island for the enemy infantry to suffer losses.

Back to the example... About being able to attack LBA, remember that attacking LBA on the ground (vs. dogfighting) is abstracted by allocating hits to the enemy airfield. So while you may not be able to attack the enemy infantry for lack of your own ground forces on the island, you can still use your ships and aircraft to attack the enemy airfields. This is what's meant by "You may inflict Hits on their Land Based Aircraft".

Hope this helps a little. The rules can be quite confusing.

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Ken Latall
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That helps VERY much! ESPECIALLY, the last answer where you cleared up the fact that attacking their land bases aircraft wasn't attacking their planes, but their airfields!!

Thanks a bunch and happy shooting!
Ken

Confucius say "You show woman who fly upside down and I show you woman who has hairy crack up!". Wax on, wax off.
 
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Ken Latall
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The Bomb Runs Step uses the word Airfield.

So everything gets clearer if we substitute Airfields for Land-Based Aircraft in several places, i.e.

Naval Guns Step Example - ... apply the hit to a Japanese Ship, Airfields, or Infantry with the lowest value.

Infantry Step, last sentence - ... only be targeted by Aircraft and Ships if there are opposing Airfields or Infantry on the Island.

Attacking Island Forces Step, Enemy Infantry section, first sentence - Bombers in the Island Area, Ships in the Coastal Area, and Infantry on the Island, may only allocate Hits against enemy Infantry if there are currently friendly Infantry or Airfields present on the Island.

I think I've got it! :)

Thanks for the help!
Ken
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Peter Kossits
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An easy way to remember the rule is just to think in terms of spotting.

If Japanese infantry are on an island by themselves, there's no one to spot their positions, so US naval and naval air can't hit them.

Japanese airfields are much more obvious, so they can always be spotted and thus attacked.

If US infantry are in foxholes or on the beach, they can spot the Japanese, so they are now valid targets for everyone.

If the US have land based air on the island, they are also in contact with the Japanese infantry and can spot their positions.



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Barry Miller
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klatall wrote:
The Bomb Runs Step uses the word Airfield.

So everything gets clearer if we substitute Airfields for Land-Based Aircraft in several places, i.e.

Naval Guns Step Example - ... apply the hit to a Japanese Ship, Airfields, or Infantry with the lowest value.

Yes. As a matter of fact I made that same annotation in my rulebook upon figuring it out.

klatall wrote:
Infantry Step, last sentence - ... only be targeted by Aircraft and Ships if there are opposing Airfields or Infantry on the Island.

Attacking Island Forces Step, Enemy Infantry section, first sentence - Bombers in the Island Area, Ships in the Coastal Area, and Infantry on the Island, may only allocate Hits against enemy Infantry if there are currently friendly Infantry or Airfields present on the Island.

Not so fast. It'd be more accurate to leave the wording as is. Remember that an airfield marker can be can be reduced to "0" (i.e., all airfields are destroyed) yet their aircraft can still be in the air. It's not till the end of the Battle Turn that LBA are destroyed for lost airfields. For those fringe cases where you don't have any airfields left, but you still do have LBA on the map, then you would meet the requirement discussed in the other post.

In such a case it won't be till the next Battle Turn that you can say with certainty that not having any airfields left on the island equals not having any LBA on the island. I hope the way I explained it makes sense. WARNING: This is my interpretation only, and is derived strictly from the way the rules are written and not what they intend, if there is a different intention.


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Ken Latall
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I LOVE THE DETAILS!!! That's what makes everything work. :)

So Mr. "not so fast" Miller, I stand corrected, which is what I'm here for.

Excellent point and I'll be making the appropriate changes to my Sequence of Play Help Sheet.

Bang, Bang, Bang!!
Ken
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Ken Latall
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I found one more place where Land-Based Aircraft should be changed to Airfields.

Attacking Island Forces Section, 1st example, last sentence: "You may inflict Hits on their Airfields".

Correct?

Also, for some reason I've been including Airfields along with Infantry when it comes to needing your own infantry or LB A/C to attack them. Not sure why, but I'm glad that's cleared up in my little packet of grey matter.

Bang, Bang, Shoot 'em up!
Ken
 
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