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Subject: 2 general questions about cards (not covered in the FAQ) rss

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Larry Schneider
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1. For cards that allow you to do something when a certain condition is true, should the condition be tested at the start of your turn, the end of your turn, or at any time during your turn even if the condition subsequently changes?

Examples include the following cards:
BEGGAR (Take any 1 Action Cube when you are alone in last place on the prestige track)
CABIN BOY (You score 1 point if you have 0-2 ware tiles in your possession)
ClOISTER (Score 1 point when you are in the lead alone on the prestige track)
GATE (Score 1 point when you are first on the wall)
GUNNER (You take 1 Gold if you are in last place on the wall)
MIK'S TAVERN (You take 1 Gold whenever you have at least 3 activated persons)
OFFICE MANAGER (You take 1 Gold if you have at least 3 activated office cards)
SCHOOL (You take 1 Gold when at least 2 of the 5 card spaces on your tableau are empty)
SOLDIER (You take 1 Gold for each 4 of your ownership markers in the city)
UNIVERSITY (You score 1 point when at least 2 of the 5 card spaces on your tableau are empty)
VAULT (You score 1 point for each of your activated 'Finance' office cards)

2. For cards that allow you to do A when you've done B, can one assume that can be done any number of times?

Examples include the following cards:
BISHOP (Pay 1 Gold to the bank to score 2 points)
GOLDSMITH (Pay 1 Action Cube and take 1 Gold)
All Office cards (Return 1 cube of a certain color and take 1 Gold)

Thank you.

 
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Gary Heidenreich
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schnel wrote:
1. For cards that allow you to do something when a certain condition is true, should the condition be tested at the start of your turn, the end of your turn, or at any time during your turn even if the condition subsequently changes?

Examples include the following cards:
BEGGAR (Take any 1 Action Cube when you are alone in last place on the prestige track)
CABIN BOY (You score 1 point if you have 0-2 ware tiles in your possession)
ClOISTER (Score 1 point when you are in the lead alone on the prestige track)
GATE (Score 1 point when you are first on the wall)
GUNNER (You take 1 Gold if you are in last place on the wall)
MIK'S TAVERN (You take 1 Gold whenever you have at least 3 activated persons)
OFFICE MANAGER (You take 1 Gold if you have at least 3 activated office cards)
SCHOOL (You take 1 Gold when at least 2 of the 5 card spaces on your tableau are empty)
SOLDIER (You take 1 Gold for each 4 of your ownership markers in the city)
UNIVERSITY (You score 1 point when at least 2 of the 5 card spaces on your tableau are empty)
VAULT (You score 1 point for each of your activated 'Finance' office cards)


We play these at a time of your choosing on your turn (when you are using your cubes or buying points). We note which cards have been done as you can only use it once.



schnel wrote:

2. For cards that allow you to do A when you've done B, can one assume that can be done any number of times?

Examples include the following cards:
BISHOP (Pay 1 Gold to the bank to score 2 points)
GOLDSMITH (Pay 1 Action Cube and take 1 Gold)
All Office cards (Return 1 cube of a certain color and take 1 Gold)

Thank you.



We play that you only use the card once. It does not say "every time" or "any time".
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1) At any time

2) Once per turn
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Denise Van Peursem
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As per the instruction sheet on the back of the booklet:

"Each card may be use at most once per round"

"With few exceptions, all cards are used in the 3rd phase, when the player is taking his turn."

And, of course, you can only use them if they are activated.
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Sophia Lechner
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The conditions are tested at the time you choose to use the card during your action phase - all of the cards you've listed can be used only once per turn. But you can freely mix using cards and spending cubes for other actions, so generally you'll be able to pick a time in your turn when it works.

(Edited to replace "activate" with "use". Because Macao uses the word "activate" like a special snowflake).
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Larry Schneider
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Thanks all. The answer to number 1 is better than I expected. I was sure it was probably as of the end of the round or start of the round.

But given that you can do it any time it works, then you can use something like the beggar at the beginning of your turn to take an action cube when you're behind in the score, then buy some points at the exchange rate putting you in first place, and then turn around and use Cloister to score an additional point by virtue of being in the lead!
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Gary Heidenreich
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schnel wrote:
Thanks all. The answer to number 1 is better than I expected. I was sure it was probably as of the end of the round or start of the round.

But given that you can do it any time it works, then you can use something like the beggar at the beginning of your turn to take an action cube when you're behind in the score, then buy some points at the exchange rate putting you in first place, and then turn around and use Cloister to score an additional point by virtue of being in the lead!


Yep, makes for some creative play.

I rate this a 10.
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David Debien
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Asked and answered but I will illustrate point 1 with a couple examples:

schnel wrote:
CABIN BOY (You score 1 point if you have 0-2 ware tiles in your possession)

SCHOOL (You take 1 Gold when at least 2 of the 5 card spaces on your tableau are empty)



So, with cabin boy, you could for instance, start with 3+ wares and make a delivery, droppping your number of ware between 0-2 and then activate cabin boy for 1 PP.

With School, you could start with more cards on your board, then develop 1 or more to bring your number of empty spaces up to 2 or more and then use the School to take 1 GC.

Point 2 is pretty well covered in the rule book. Most cards can be used at most once per turn. There are some persistent cards which act every time their situational usefulness is triggered.

Example: The Crane gives a 1 cube discount for every activated building. This card can be used more than once per turn.
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Larry Schneider
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Seems to me that many cards should be checked at a specific point in time during your turn. The following is what I figured out--though I might have made a mistake or two:

AT THE START OF YOUR TURN
Beggar (Take AC when alone in last place on prestige)
Moneylender (Take 1 Gold and score a point) [Check this after Beggar]
Gunner (Take 1 Gold if in last place on the wall)
Sentry (Advance 1 space on the wall for free if not starting player) [Check this after Gunner]
Donna Blue (Take 1 Blue)
Lady Black (Take 1 Black)
Madame Vert (Take 1 Green)
Miss Gray (Take 1 Gray)
Mrs. Red (Take 1 Red)
Senora Violeta (Take 1 Violet)
Bank (Take 2 Gold)

AT THE END OF YOUR TURN
City Hall (Score 1 point for each activated Administration)*
Court (Score 1 point for each activated Law)*
Customs Station (Score 1 point for each activated Customs)*
Fortress (Score 1 point for each activated Military Affairs)*
Gate (Score 1 point when first on the wall)
Office (Score 1 point if you used an Office card)
Quarry (Score 1 point for each activated Build)*
University (Score 1 point when at least 2 of the 5 tableau spaces are empty)
Vault (Score 1 point for each activated Finance)*
Chapel (Score 1 point if you scored 1 point)
Cloister (Score 1 point when alone in first place on prestige)
Chapel and Cloister should be checked last, obviously; the order in which you check them will change depending on the situation
*If you use the Gravediggers card, may need to check these sooner than the end of your turn

Other cards should be checked according to their text when (1) activating a card or (2) delivering goods or (3) taking possession of a city quarter or (4) using the exchange rate to buy points, etc.
Most cards that allow you to take a gold if a certain condition is met should be used whenever the time is right.

 
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Larry Schneider
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schnel wrote:
Seems to me that many cards should be checked at a specific point in time during your turn. The following is what I figured out--though I might have made a mistake or two:

AT THE START OF YOUR TURN
Beggar (Take AC when alone in last place on prestige)
Moneylender (Take 1 Gold and score a point) [Check this after Beggar]
Gunner (Take 1 Gold if in last place on the wall)
Sentry (Advance 1 space on the wall for free if not starting player) [Check this after Gunner]
Donna Blue (Take 1 Blue)
Lady Black (Take 1 Black)
Madame Vert (Take 1 Green)
Miss Gray (Take 1 Gray)
Mrs. Red (Take 1 Red)
Senora Violeta (Take 1 Violet)
Bank (Take 2 Gold)

AT THE END OF YOUR TURN
City Hall (Score 1 point for each activated Administration)*
Court (Score 1 point for each activated Law)*
Customs Station (Score 1 point for each activated Customs)*
Fortress (Score 1 point for each activated Military Affairs)*
Gate (Score 1 point when first on the wall)
Office (Score 1 point if you used an Office card)
Quarry (Score 1 point for each activated Build)*
University (Score 1 point when at least 2 of the 5 tableau spaces are empty)
Vault (Score 1 point for each activated Finance)*
Chapel (Score 1 point if you scored 1 point)
Cloister (Score 1 point when alone in first place on prestige)
Chapel and Cloister should be checked last, obviously; the order in which you check them will change depending on the situation
*If you use the Gravediggers card, may need to check these sooner than the end of your turn

Other cards should be checked according to their text when (1) activating a card or (2) delivering goods or (3) taking possession of a city quarter or (4) using the exchange rate to buy points, etc.
Most cards that allow you to take a gold if a certain condition is met should be used whenever the time is right.


Obviously, the exception to the start of turn cards is in the turn when you first activate one or more of the cards. Then you take the effect immediately after activating it.
 
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schnel wrote:
Seems to me that many cards should be checked at a specific point in time during your turn. The following is what I figured out--though I might have made a mistake or two:


What do you mean by "should"?
- as in "that is the rule as I understand it": that is incorrect; the card conditions are checked when you use the card for its ability
- as in "better strategic play": maybe; sometimes, you may want to use a card during your turn in order to change something to help you with another card (e.g., score points during a turn to put you in the lead, which may help you use yet another card) -- see the examples others have posted above.
 
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Larry Schneider
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snoozefest wrote:
schnel wrote:
Seems to me that many cards should be checked at a specific point in time during your turn. The following is what I figured out--though I might have made a mistake or two:


What do you mean by "should"?
- as in "that is the rule as I understand it": that is incorrect; the card conditions are checked when you use the card for its ability
- as in "better strategic play": maybe; sometimes, you may want to use a card during your turn in order to change something to help you with another card (e.g., score points during a turn to put you in the lead, which may help you use yet another card) -- see the examples others have posted above.

Perhaps "could" would have been a better word choice.

My only point was that I saw no reason why you wouldn't always use cards like Donna Blue, Lady Black, Madame Vert, Miss Gray, Mrs. Red, Senora Violeta, and Bank at the start of your turn. And the same holds true for Beggar, Moneylender, Gunner, and Sentry as long as you used those 4 cards in that order.

And similarly, why wouldn't you always use cards that score you points at the end of your turn (as long as Chapel and Cloister were used last and used in the most beneficial order; i.e., sometimes you'd want to use Chapel before Cloister, and other times, you might want to use Cloister before Chapel)?

I simply couldn't think of an example--with the exception of Gravediggers--as to why you might ever benefit by using them at the beginning or in the middle of your turn)?

As I noted, the only exception I could think of was if you were to use Gravediggers, you wouldn't necessarily want to wait until the end of your turn to use certain cards in that case. But if you didn't have Gravediggers activated, certain cards that were activated in earlier turns would always normally be used at the start of the turn and other cards would always normally be used at the end of the turn.

Yes, you want to use cards when they benefit you the most. I simply wanted to suggest that the timing of using the cards I listed in my earlier message might typically be at the start or end of your turn because that is when those particular cards would generally benefit you the most.
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schnel wrote:
snoozefest wrote:
schnel wrote:
Seems to me that many cards should be checked at a specific point in time during your turn. The following is what I figured out--though I might have made a mistake or two:


What do you mean by "should"?
- as in "that is the rule as I understand it": that is incorrect; the card conditions are checked when you use the card for its ability
- as in "better strategic play": maybe; sometimes, you may want to use a card during your turn in order to change something to help you with another card (e.g., score points during a turn to put you in the lead, which may help you use yet another card) -- see the examples others have posted above.

Perhaps "could" would have been a better word choice.

My only point was that I saw no reason why you wouldn't always use cards like Donna Blue, Lady Black, Madame Vert, Miss Gray, Mrs. Red, Senora Violeta, and Bank at the start of your turn. And the same holds true for Beggar, Moneylender, Gunner, and Sentry as long as you used those 4 cards in that order.

And similarly, why wouldn't you always use cards that score you points at the end of your turn (as long as Chapel and Cloister were used last and used in the most beneficial order; i.e., sometimes you'd want to use Chapel before Cloister, and other times, you might want to use Cloister before Chapel)?

I simply couldn't think of an example--with the exception of Gravediggers--as to why you might ever benefit by using them at the beginning or in the middle of your turn)?

As I noted, the only exception I could think of was if you were to use Gravediggers, you wouldn't necessarily want to wait until the end of your turn to use certain cards in that case. But if you didn't have Gravediggers activated, certain cards that were activated in earlier turns would always normally be used at the start of the turn and other cards would always normally be used at the end of the turn.

Yes, you want to use cards when they benefit you the most. I simply wanted to suggest that the timing of using the cards I listed in my earlier message might typically be at the start or end of your turn because that is when those particular cards would generally benefit you the most.


I agree but I would phrase it a different way. You should use certain cards right away because otherwise you will forget! Especially with the women who give extra cubes. I am not aware of any penalties from other cards which result from having more or less cubes during your turn. I have seen players with a lot of activated cards end their turn and then realize they forgot to get and use the extra cubes. (I play with a fair number of absent-minded people...)

[Apologies for overquoting]
 
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You could certainly create a card resolution order if you prefer to play that way, but IMO it adds unnecessary time & confusion for no real benefit.

As far as the risk of forgetting to use cards or double-using cards, this is easily solved by tapping (turning sideways) a card once you've used it as a visual reminder. Once your turn is done, un-tap all cards again.
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Larry Schneider
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worshipsf wrote:
You could certainly create a card resolution order if you prefer to play that way, but IMO it adds unnecessary time & confusion for no real benefit.

As far as the risk of forgetting to use cards or double-using cards, this is easily solved by tapping (turning sideways) a card once you've used it as a visual reminder. Once your turn is done, un-tap all cards again.

I'm going to get in the habit of doing that!
 
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