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Subject: Does the kickstarter feel odd? rss

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Abraham Quicksilver
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I mean the process, presentation and updates?

Maybe the guys haven't done one before, but the graphics aren't what we expect from a profile campaign like this one.

The updates are frankly strange - I think someone needs some more sleep!!

I don't know it all feels just a bit made-up on the spot.

Maybe I'm judging harshly, especially after the over-managed Conan KS.

I'm not actually complaining, I kind of like that its not over done.

Just observing really
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Tim Bowyer
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I find it a very... honest kickstarter in terms of updates. You say they're made up on the spot/strange but they come across to me as genuine from a hard working team reacting to a successful campaign. I also like the significant time they're putting in to answering questions/responding to comments.

I didn't experience the conan one beyond a passing interest so can't compare it to that but I'm loving this one as it just feels... Natural and genuine.
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Scott Everts
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I'm actually very happy with how this KS is run. The game looks amazing and they really care about the show its based on. They are working with an expert on the show to make sure it conforms to the license and are doing a great job on the plastic elements. And it seems reasonable price wise. Also impressed they aren't flooding us with add-ons.

A solid looking game and well run campaign from my perspective.
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Martin Swift
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aqsgames wrote:
I mean the process, presentation and updates?

Maybe the guys haven't done one before, but the graphics aren't what we expect from a profile campaign like this one.

The updates are frankly strange - I think someone needs some more sleep!!

I don't know it all feels just a bit made-up on the spot.

Maybe I'm judging harshly, especially after the over-managed Conan KS.

I'm not actually complaining, I kind of like that its not over done.

Just observing really


I think your judging it harshly... I'm surprised with the amount of criticism of this project. It's a well loved theme, has solid gameplay mechanics, great minis etc....

Having kickstarted numerous projects as far as I can see this seems well run and hopefully will produce a great game, just not the nebulously wonderful game some people want.
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Keith Scholes
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I do think that you are being a little harsh and there is nothing intrinsically wrong with this KS, however, there are a couple of factors to consider.

1)Although they obviously had a set of stretch goals pre-planned. The KS took off at an amazing rate, possibly faster than they anticipated so they were caught on the back foot and initially may have struggled to keep up in terms of posting stretch goals.

2)They have been very reactive, primarily to calls for lowered shipping which in any case was dependent on the amount to be shipped. Additionally to the £65 pledge level which again proved very popular and which they have now preserved for all rather than increasing to £75.

We are still in the first few days and I think that when we are into the later weeks, which I assume will be less frenetic the KS may feel less odd to you.
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Abraham Quicksilver
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Don't get me wrong I backed the full thing day one.

Conan was an exceptionally prepared and managed and has set a high target to meet


TB guys if you are reading, here's my tips

1) don't lock the shipping costs yet, you don't know how many stretch goals you will have

2) get a graphics guy to smarten up the graphics on the Ks

3) go over the Conan campaign, look at how the updates and stretches were organised.

I want this game to be a million pound seller, my opinion is you're selling it short
 
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Simon Neale
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tim bowyer wrote:
I find it a very... honest kickstarter in terms of updates. You say they're made up on the spot/strange but they come across to me as genuine from a hard working team reacting to a successful campaign. I also like the significant time they're putting in to answering questions/responding to comments.


I totally agree. I would much rather have honesty in the KS campaign and actively managed comment responses than flashy graphics on the KS webpages - but that is just me.
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Neil Christiansen
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I have backed 83 games on Kickstarter, so I have seen a full spectrum of how well they were managed.

Thunderbirds, so far, is toward the top. They were well prepared, have a solid game with draft of rules posted, a gameplay video, and additional expansions and stretch goals promised but no details yet available.

I am very satisfied so far.
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Jay
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There's two types of kickstarters I've backed, ones done by big-name companies/designers which are basically pre-orders that are ready to go. And there's ones usually by independent or new designers that are a lot more spontaneous 'work things out as we go along', with more backer involvement.

And for me I think the TB kickstarter feels a little strange because I was expecting it to be just a pre-order of a game using kickstarter to promote it. Yet if feels a lot more organic, with lots of open communication with backers. I don't know how it compares with Conan but I'm really liking the campaign style so far. It seems like they genuinely care about making the product as best they can, and care about the backers. Which they didn't have to do - they could have just sat back and let the Matt Leacock + Thunderbirds brand sell itself.

The only slight concern I have is that they don't seem to have anticipated just how well the kickstarter would take off, and the stretch goals seem pretty close together. There may be a danger of running out of them before the campaign ends.

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M.C.Crispy
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The only bit that feels odd to me is that partial expansions are set as stretch goals. I mean, what happens if funding gets stuck half way through an expansion? To me, these aren't stretch goals at all, just staged "reveals" of the already planned-in content. It's not the only KS to do this, but I don't like it when they do it this way.
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Neil Christiansen
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I think that is a fair assessment.
 
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Martin Swift
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mccrispy wrote:
The only bit that feels odd to me is that partial expansions are set as stretch goals. I mean, what happens if funding gets stuck half way through an expansion? To me, these aren't stretch goals at all, just staged "reveals" of the already planned-in content. It's not the only KS to do this, but I don't like it when they do it this way.


That is the only issue I came across.... partial funding of expansions seems strange but I think there is little doubt they will be fully funded.
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Freelance Police
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I only just skimmed the Home page and Updates, and the campaign looks fine. Maybe compare it to IELLO or other companies that don't use KS as much as their business model.

IMO, What's *much* more important is if the company can deliver. Modiphius has run two previous KS, so look at the comments sections about their fulfilment and customer service. Also, check their website and products to get an idea of how much of their company doesn't rely up on KS for funding. Matt Leacock, of course, has designed several good games, such as Pandemic and Forbidden Island.

Now, if the creator doesn't answer backer questions during the campaign (eg. licensing issues), that may be a cause for concern. Or only shows renders or no prototype, which isn't the case here. Also request to see the rules or a PnP.
 
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Abraham Quicksilver
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They have improved it over the last couple of days and have asked for feedback on what else could be improved

Well done guys
 
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M.C.Crispy
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OK, now it feels odd. What started as a co-operative game now has expansions "revealed" as stretch goals that add conflict to the game and another expansion that creates an GM-moderated "RPG". WHAT? A significant proportion of the stretch goals will now be for an addon. Surely that can't be right? I'm considering bailing out on this one as it's starting to feel as though the end product is going to be a complete mess.
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Robert Mair
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I'm starting to have the same feeling. Might switch to just a "base game and add-ons" level and pick up the expansions at retail later on.
Since it seems that we would have to wait 4 months before the expansions are available anyway, I'd rather just get the base game and decide on the rest later.
 
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Abraham Quicksilver
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My first reaction too, wtf rpg? Not something for me.

I see where they are coming from, but....

A) I'm worried about dilution of effort and focus

B) I'm worried that the stretch goals will not all relate to the Boardgame

C) it just seems a really random thing to throw in half way through.... Why not start with both from the beginning? Or, keep it entirely separate?

It's more confusing than a problem. I still have no doubts the team will produce and on time and up to quality. It's just not the clear, normal Ks process.
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David Bate
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Dilution is a valid concern. @Chris will there be more base game/expansion stuff or will it be predominately RPG from now on?

Adding the RPG to my pledge doesn't interest me, I have more than enough Sci Fi RPG stuff that has never been used. But I'm intrigued to see what or how the RPG content relates to the base material and how it generates stories using them.
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Scott Everts
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I think you guys are overreacting a bit. The Hood is similar to the Bio Terrorst from Pandemic so not a suprise he showed up here.

The RPG, it's a completely different product with that has its own stretch goal unlocks. You can completely ignore it and it won't affect the board game at all. Different designers too.

Besides, you already got more then the later cost will be retail. If you just ignore the campaign you aren't doing any worse then the day before.


EDIT - At 180k we are getting 4 more pod vehicles for Expansion 1. So the game hasn't been abandoned for the RPG yet!
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M.C.Crispy
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ScottE wrote:
The Hood is similar to the Bio Terrorst from Pandemic so not a suprise he showed up here.
A part of Pandemic that I also chose not to play - though the other components in that expansion were awesome. But that's not what's happening here. Over-reacting or not, I still see this project as having veered a long way away from the project that I wanted to fund - or that was described at the outset. I really dislike stretch goals that get added during the campaign, it's like the project hadn't been properly thought through at the design stage. (Mind you, I also dislike "stretch goals" that drip-feed content that is needed to play the game but has been broken up into stretch goals - I pulled out of the Age of Empires KS partly because of that approach. This project is doing the same.)
 
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David Bate
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ScottE wrote:

The RPG, it's a completely different product with that has its own stretch goal unlocks.


I don't think that is entirely correct, it is listed 'add on' to main game with a pledge level reflecting that and will integrate into the main board game as it uses its components.

Quote:
The Thunderbirds Roleplaying Add On (just increase your pledge by £20) lets you turn the board game into an exciting story telling experience. By introducing a Game Master, exciting events and challenges as well as more detailed character progression, Thunderbirds Roleplaying turns the cards, playing pieces, and map of the Core Box into thrilling rescue adventures in a persistent campaign world.



ScottE wrote:
You can completely ignore it and it won't affect the board game at all. Different designers too.


Very true. It can be safely ignored if unwanted.

ScottE wrote:

EDIT - At 180k we are getting 4 more pod vehicles for Expansion 1. So the game hasn't been abandoned for the RPG yet!


Oooh just seen that on the KS updates page, nice. Eyeing up Hood part two too. And now the expansion 1 extras.
 
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Scott Everts
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mccrispy wrote:
ScottE wrote:
The Hood is similar to the Bio Terrorst from Pandemic so not a suprise he showed up here.
A part of Pandemic that I also chose not to play - though the other components in that expansion were awesome. But that's not what's happening here. Over-reacting or not, I still see this project as having veered a long way away from the project that I wanted to fund - or that was described at the outset. I really dislike stretch goals that get added during the campaign, it's like the project hadn't been properly thought through at the design stage. (Mind you, I also dislike "stretch goals" that drip-feed content that is needed to play the game but has been broken up into stretch goals - I pulled out of the Age of Empires KS partly because of that approach. This project is doing the same.)


I've backed near 100 kickstarters and sadly stretch goals are the only way to keep people backing. I'm not a big fan either but there's no denying the fact they work. People cry and stomp their feet if they aren't unlocking fast enough or there aren't enough. So they are usually well planned in advance so I don't think anything was just thrown in willy nilly. I did find it odd they broke up the components of each expansion. I don't know what would happen if they only funded half an expansion. My guess is they'd just unlock it anyway. They don't want to sell them half finished later.

I read the RPG info and found it rather intriguing. It integrates into the board game. At first I wasn't interested but now I am. But doesn't sound like you have anything to worry about if you don't want it. Just don't add 20 pounds to your pledge and it can be completely forgotten. Besides, with 4 expansions to the base game, we're doing pretty good. If you don't want the 4th Hood expansion I expect you can sell it off later.

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David Bate
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ScottE wrote:
Besides, with 4 expansions to the base game, we're doing pretty good.


I'm as happy as Larry with the game so far. They can drip feed me more quality 'toys and mains' if they wish.

TB has already taken the primary board game space in my car's boot when we go away on holiday later this year (assuming no problems push delivery beyond October).
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Brian Dean
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wrrlykam wrote:

ScottE wrote:
You can completely ignore it and it won't affect the board game at all. Different designers too.


Very true. It can be safely ignored if unwanted.


Yes, I completely agree. I don't really understand the stress when this is a separate product that one can simply ignore if it doesn't tempt. The RPG is being handled by a different team so I don't see it impacting the boardgame development at all. As far as it taking the place of any boardgame stretch goals, I strongly suspect anything they could have offered for the boardgame as a stretch goal if the RPG didn't exist still will be. Stretch goals are part of what keeps a Kickstarter campaign ticking along, so why would they cut anything they could offer up as one?

In fact, since it brings more money into the campaign to unlock the boardgame goals, it seems like a good thing even for those who have absolutely no interest in it.
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Jay
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I'm not massively excited about the Hood expansion, but still completely happy with the £65 level. There is more than enough stuff in the expansions that I want for it to be worthwhile. And I get the impression that the base game plus each of the expansions had largely been designed before hand with the intention of being a modular pick-and-choose style. So I have no worries about the direction the board game is taking.

Also 4 of the next 5 stretch goals are related to the board game or expansions (at £170k, £180k, £200k and 3000 backers) with only 1 related to the RPG (another at £200k). So I don't think there's any concern of the RPG dominating the remaining stretch goals.
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