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Elder Sign: Gates of Arkham» Forums » Rules

Subject: The Vaults of Zin vs Kate Winthrop and a few more questions rss

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Charles-David
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"Courage isn't the matter of not being frightened, you know. It's being afraid and doing what you have to do anyway." - 3rd Doctor
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Last Friday, a friend and I had our first try at GoA. (Thanks to Julia (Scarlet Witch) for convincing me to try this excellent expansion)
We decided to tried our luck against Ghatanothoa. (Not to easy, not to hard a GOO)

While we played, a few questions arose. I'm pretty sure we managed them right, but I still thought I would ask them here just to be sure.

1) Kate Winthrop decided to jump into a gate and try an OW adventure that turned out to be "The Vaults of Zin" - Entry: A monster appears here!
Since Kate's ability is "Monsters cannot appear during Kate's turn" we did not add a monster on the adventure. Was that the right thing to do?

2) The Event card she drew was "A Moment's Respite" - During this Resolution phase, monsters cannot appear and you ignore all terror effects.
With Kate's ability, that did not change the outcome much except that she decided to select the second reward: A monster appears and gain an elder sign - So no monster appeared.

If another investigator drew the same event on the same OW - The "Entry" would precedes the "Event" right? Meaning that a monster would still appear on the first OW task slot,
but no monster would be added by the reward once the adventure is successfully completed.

3) In GoA, OW card always come in play face down and can't be turned face-up unless they are attempted (because of the presence of a gate on it right)?

4) Does an Adventure card get replaced before the clock advances? Meaning, does a new "At Midnight" adventure take effect immediately if it just appeared on the table and the clock strikes midnight?

I hope we played it right, because even though Ghatanothoa awoke, we managed to send him back to the abyss he came from.

Thanks for your help.
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J M
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Yes to all four questions.
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Charles-David
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Excellent! Thanks.
 
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Mark L
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As AceAceBaby said, you played this correctly. One clarification:

metabulis wrote:
1) Kate Winthrop decided to jump into a gate and try an OW adventure that turned out to be "The Vaults of Zin" - Entry: A monster appears here!
Since Kate's ability is "Monsters cannot appear during Kate's turn" we did not add a monster on the adventure. Was that the right thing to do?

2) The Event card she drew was "A Moment's Respite" - During this Resolution phase, monsters cannot appear and you ignore all terror effects.
With Kate's ability, that did not change the outcome much except that she decided to select the second reward: A monster appears and gain an elder sign - So no monster appeared.

That reads like you think the Event card prevented a monster appearing as part of the reward. In fact Kate's ability prevents both monsters appearing, because it's still her turn when the reward is gained (her turn ends immediately after that, just before the clock advances). So the Event card had no effect here.
 
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John K
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Good questions. I would have played everything just like you did. Not to derail this thread, but:

metabulis wrote:

4) Does an Adventure card get replaced before the clock advances? Meaning, does a new "At Midnight" adventure take effect immediately if it just appeared on the table and the clock strikes midnight?


I'm considering house ruling this so that new replacement adventures at the end of the turn before midnight can't trigger "at midnight" effects until the next day.

It feels a little gimmicky to me. As far as I can remember there is nothing you can really do to prevent it other than purposely failing your adventure (unless I'm forgetting another way). I've had a few games where this didn't add a sense of challenge for me, it just felt like I was being kicked while I was down.
 
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Jason Horner
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FarmDoodle wrote:
Good questions. I would have played everything just like you did. Not to derail this thread, but:

metabulis wrote:

4) Does an Adventure card get replaced before the clock advances? Meaning, does a new "At Midnight" adventure take effect immediately if it just appeared on the table and the clock strikes midnight?


I'm considering house ruling this so that new replacement adventures at the end of the turn before midnight can't trigger "at midnight" effects until the next day.

It feels a little gimmicky to me. As far as I can remember there is nothing you can really do to prevent it other than purposely failing your adventure (unless I'm forgetting another way). I've had a few games where this didn't add a sense of challenge for me, it just felt like I was being kicked while I was down.


This particular case does happen called out in the FAQ.

Is it unfair? Oh yes, terribly. You can totally get blindsided by a nasty effect.

But consider the flipside. If you reveal a midnight effect just before midnight strikes, then you have *four* whole turns to deal with it. Unless your board is in total chaos, four turns should be more than enough to handle it. This weakens the power of midnight effects by quite a bit. About 1/4 of the time, on average, they are likely to have noeffect at all! Thus, what is supposed to be a penalty turns into a small bonus. Consider this is you decide if houeruling is necesary.

If you really feel a houserule in necessary, try this: If a midnight effect comes out at midnight, you get one turn to complete it or its midnight effect triggers.
 
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Julia
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Also, don't forget that the top card of the Adventure Deck has the backside visible all the time. Hence you know what's coming, and you can trick the deck by doing this:

a) you use the Streets of Arkham to discard one card in play and have the nasty top-of-the-deck card coming
b) you move to this second card and hence cancel the At Midnight effect on the back

certainly it's risky; but it's important to understand that manipulating the adventure deck is one of the key strategies for winning the game
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William Wilting
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I have a question about The Vaults of Zin as well.

On the card, the Entry effect says: "A monster appears here!"

Is that an exception to the rule that monsters must be distributed evenly? It doesn't say "A monster appears!", but "A monster appears HERE!". In the situation I was confronted with, there already was a monster marker on the card's monster task space, while there was only one other monster marker in play somewhere else. So, does this monster still appear below The Vaults of Zin when there aren't monster markers on every single card in play?
 
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Julia
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Good point. I'd play the card literally, hence, monster appearing on Zin via this entry effect can stack regardless of the distribution of other monsters in play. Please note that if there are monsters on Zin and a new monster appears as consequence of other effects, you have to resolve that monster placement regularly.
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William Wilting
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I'll remember that, of course. Other effects that make a monster appear don't explicitly say that a monster appears on this particular card.

Thank you!
 
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Julia
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You're welcome, William
 
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John K
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I am curious how everyone has been handling the first task on The Vaults of Zin:



With no monster I've been treating the top task as just pay 1 stamina. 99.99% sure that is correct.

With a monster I've been ignoring the stamina requirement since it is covered up. But, I'm not 100% sure if that's correct.

The monster tokens only have 3 possible spaces for requirements. The stamina requirement on the card is covered up by the right end of the monster token (where the monster artwork is), but not actually covered up by any tasks on the token. I referenced the base game rule book for clarification, but the examples it gives weren't helpful (showed an example of the card's requirement on the left side, with blank white monster token space on the right -- the exact opposite of the pic I included above)
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Vladimir Lehotai
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The stamina cost is in addition to the monster token, because it is not included in the monster token space.
 
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Julia
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Yep, the monster's not covering the Stamina requirement since the monster task does not include the Stamina requirement.

Also, for resolving the task without monster: don't have the card in front of me, but doesn't the Vaults card have an Entry effect saying that a monster appears at the adventure? So, unless you're playing Kate, it's rather unlikely that that task will be empty. But in case yes, you pay the Stamina and it's done
 
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William Wilting
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Yes, that card has an Entry effect. It's this Entry effect I was asking you about when I wanted to know how to deal with it. It reads: "A monster appears here." The last time I played a game in which the Vaults of Zin showed up, I entered the adventure while there was a monster on the task already. There was just one other monster elsewhere when I encountered the Entry effect. That was why I wanted to know if the word 'here' really means that a second monster should appear on the same card instead of on another adventure, as an exception to the rule that monsters must be distributed evenly.

By the way, as long as you don't consider to resolve the task because you can't succeed resolving the other task, you don't have to deal the stamina damage. However, you must deal the stamina damage first in case of an adventure with a ordered task arrow. I don't have the card at hand now, so I don't know if it's an ordered task list or not.
 
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Charles-David
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0616william wrote:
I don't have the card at hand now, so I don't know if it's an ordered task list or not.


It does not have an arrow.
 
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Mel
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I am glad this question (about the monster task and stamina thing) was asked. I had encountered this on my last game and wondered the same thing. I just slid the monster over and left that exposed and took the heat for it. I guess I played it right by beginner's luck.
 
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Julia
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Just remember that usually FFG games have the golden rule that when a card is in contraddiction with the rules, the card has precedence.
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William Wilting
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metabulis wrote:
0616william wrote:
I don't have the card at hand now, so I don't know if it's an ordered task list or not.


It does not have an arrow.


Well, in that case you don't have to pay the stamina loss as long as you don't decide to complete that task. You might fail the adventure, so you can choose to not resolve the task which lets you only pay 1 stamina.

I think you always have to roll the dice at least once when you enter an adventure to intentionally fail the adventure and thus retreat from it. Technically, even when there is an arrow on the card, you can choose to not resolve a single task, which is allowed according to the rules. That means that you can skip the stamina loss. But why would you skip it if you can complete the adventure without a monster on the card? The only way of completing an ordered task adventure is to complete every task after all. By the way, you can't enter the adventure at all if you only have 1 stamina, because you may not resolve an adventure that causes your character to die.
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