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Subject: Is there an incentive to place more than the minimum amount of enemies on a tile? rss

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Emile de Maat
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When I originally read the rules, I got the impression that the number of enemies (and lairs) you place on a tile is a bit of a risk vs. reward calculation: more enemies means more risk, but also potentially more treasure.

However, during a free-form adventure, you can keep on adding tiles. Visiting a couple tiles with few enemies will yield just as much treasure as a single tile with a lot of enemies, but at a much lower risk.

So, do the game mechanics include any incentive to include more than the minimum amount of enemies? (Disregarding a possible wish for a greater challenge or a faster play, and disregarding any house rules.)
 
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trevor

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No, Not really.

This is kind of a "sandbox" game which is why many people were turned off. People like more structure in their board games so this was a turn off.

After a while we kinda started to enjoy the nature of it. You are just telling a story, sitting around a campfire.....

" we opened the door and 6, no 10, grubbers leaped out from nowhere!"
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Arturo Cavari
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Well more treasure is always a good incentive!
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Matthew Federico
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thegrinder wrote:
Well more treasure is always a good incentive!


Yeah, I just assumed for every 3 monsters you would get an additional treasure token.
 
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Tott Donetta
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each tile has its own treasure limit though. the variable number of monsters/lairs/hunting packs etc...
You know those computer games where you can choose Easy, Normal or Hard?
This is how Myth does that.

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Jeremy Steward
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More minions=more treasure.

But also it is part of adjusting the difficulty of your game. Always doing the minimum will get boring.
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Steve Kozlowski
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As others have said, if you only put the minimum number of monsters on the tile you will have less opportunity to drop treasure. I think you'll find that if you minimize the number of enemies, you will consistently not drop as many treasures as the tile allows.

That being said, I wish they would incorporate something additional to the game to further reward players for populating a tile with more monsters/lairs. Just a little something additional would be cool.
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Jonathan Rowe
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As I've become more experienced with the game, I've started to feel that the _number_ of monsters is much less important than I first thought - it's their location and type.

"Mixed" batches of monsters generate much more AP each Darkness Phase and you can drive yourself wild trying to nail the Solitary Surviving Grubber on a tile full of Crawlers.

Expansion monsters - like Elementals and Sycline - are considerably tougher, even at the Minion level (eg Sycline re-roll their misses). Even Crawlers are much more deadly on the first tile, when you don't have any Potions and haven't visited a Merchant yet - but after clearing a 6x6 tile and purchasing Antivenom, the number of Crawlers you can safely take on increases rapidly.

Location is a big deal. If the monsters are positioned outside threat range, they stand inactive until the Heroes are ready to trigger them; if closer, they spring into action are start generating APs straight away.

Then there's the link to Darkness Cards, depending on which Deck you're using. Some Decks have Cards that spawn more monsters are promote minions into Captains if there are a certain number in play.

I like to put as many monsters on a tile as I think I can get away with - my main criterion is whether the tile will get too cluttered, not the risk/reward payout. I base the numbers more on whether they are far away or close (fewer if closer) and how many APs they'll be generating.

But then again, I soft reboot dead Heroes all the time... If you're running a more rigorous campaign and taking 'death' seriously, the risk/reward balance will be more important to you, but as I've said, it's harder to calculate than you'd think
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T Brehm
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Treasure pops when you kill three mobs at a time. If you only spawn 3 mobs, you'll have to get them all in one blow (as you're running the map, fighting the quest, avoiding traps, and trying to get off the map without loitering)

If you spawn 8, you've got a little more leeway in your attacks before you start losing treasure.

I.E. the difference between 3 on this map and 3 on the next and 6 on this map is that you have a better chance of killing three at once with 6.
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Emile de Maat
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As I mentioned in my original post, I don't think "more treasure" is a working incentive. As (during a free-form adventure) the number of tiles is not limited, I can easily get that treasure on the next tile, or the next, or the one after that.

Purple wrote:
So, do the game mechanics include any incentive to include more than the minimum amount of enemies? (Disregarding a possible wish for a greater challenge or a faster play, and disregarding any house rules.)

It seems that the answer is "No".
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Chad Caughmann
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Purple wrote:
As I mentioned in my original post, I don't think "more treasure" is a working incentive. As (during a free-form adventure) the number of tiles is not limited, I can easily get that treasure on the next tile, or the next, or the one after that.

Purple wrote:
So, do the game mechanics include any incentive to include more than the minimum amount of enemies? (Disregarding a possible wish for a greater challenge or a faster play, and disregarding any house rules.)

It seems that the answer is "No".


For most people, the combination of more challenge and more opportunities for treasure is the reason. While you could just extend the game as long as you want with more tiles, putting the minimum amount of challenge on each tile...would that honestly be your ideal "fun" way to play? I know it's not an inherent game mechanic...but the reason is "fun". People have fun by creating a greater risk/reward situation.
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T Brehm
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I guess my thought is that it's NOT just as easy to go to another tile...

The risk portion of what you're fighting is dominated by traps and lairs, which happen automatically on new tiles.
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Emile de Maat
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thetang22 wrote:
For most people, the combination of more challenge and more opportunities for treasure is the reason. While you could just extend the game as long as you want with more tiles, putting the minimum amount of challenge on each tile...would that honestly be your ideal "fun" way to play? I know it's not an inherent game mechanic...but the reason is "fun". People have fun by creating a greater risk/reward situation.

Well, my question was to know if there were reasons other than the challenge, hence the part about "Disregarding a possible wish for a greater challenge or a faster play, and disregarding any house rules". I was interested to see if there was anything I was missing, and this doesn't seem to be the case.

As for fun... I think the current way is fun, but I would have more fun if there was a greater reward for taking on a greater challenge. (Which, at the moment, I feel there is not, because I can simply go visit more tiles to get the same treasure without taking the greater challenge.)
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Emile de Maat
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Granite26 wrote:
I guess my thought is that it's NOT just as easy to go to another tile...

The risk portion of what you're fighting is dominated by traps and lairs, which happen automatically on new tiles.

That could be the case - I think I've been rather lucky with the traps I have encounter so far.
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Ben Locke
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My advice to you is to play a few rounds of Slaughterfield. That should answer your question as there can be waves of baddies. If you bought the Slaughterfield expansion, there are rewards for doing various things. The treasure drops more frequently in SF mode, but the allure is in fighting and hopefully surviving the waves of baddies. After playing some SF, you might feel different about spawning more monsters, as you should have a better understanding of what you can and can't do.

Furthermore, while the game doesn't currently have an XP approach, I could see one being added (either from MERCS or the community) that would make populating tiles heavily more rewarding.
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Jarad Bond
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I have been wrestling with the same issue from day one. I played some early on, then tabled it to paint minis. I'm about ready to start playing again and am still unsure how I want to play this beast.

I think one sweet spot for me is going to be playing this a little like a "roguelike" video game. That would provide the incentive I'm looking for. The problem with Myth has always been the open nature of setting your own challenge.

If you started a session with their persistent treasure bag but no equipment, you could set out to defeat a specific boss/mini-boss on the fourth tile. The first time you play through, you naturally choose the minimum number of minions (why else would you choose more?) but are woefully under-equipped by the time you get to the end and get wiped out. Good try, though! Soft reset the heroes. (A previous poster mentioned this idea - I dig it!)

Next week, you try again. This time, you up the ante on each tile so that you can find more treasure. Maybe this time you get some good items and make it. Maybe not. Your bag is getting better while you do side quests and you eventually beat your mini-boss. You can have a title.

Now you can try a more difficult mini-boss until you beat them. Finally, you start getting into the easy bosses. And then tougher ones. Now that you have some titles, you have deck modifications and equipment (if you choose to hold items). Finally, you can perform some truly epic feats. And when it gets boring, you retire your heroes with quite a few hours of gameplay and the entertainment has been worth all the time and money, right? Right?!
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zee ogre
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It's my understanding that the original game design did not include keeping gear with titles, the feature was added as a response to backer feedback. My group has house-ruled the "roguelike mode" that logris mentions; only starting gear at the beginning of a session. The persistent treasure bag and the powers that a title grants are more than enough to ramp up quickly, and gathering treasure is enough of an incentive for us to populate the tile that we don't run into the minimum effort problem.
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T Brehm
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Keeping gear was an add-on rule
 
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Michael Hyland

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Purple wrote:
When I originally read the rules, I got the impression that the number of enemies (and lairs) you place on a tile is a bit of a risk vs. reward calculation: more enemies means more risk, but also potentially more treasure.

However, during a free-form adventure, you can keep on adding tiles. Visiting a couple tiles with few enemies will yield just as much treasure as a single tile with a lot of enemies, but at a much lower risk.

So, do the game mechanics include any incentive to include more than the minimum amount of enemies? (Disregarding a possible wish for a greater challenge or a faster play, and disregarding any house rules.)


It's a flaw of the game quite frankly.

There isn't any kind of difficulty scaling system with any incentive for doing it. Why put more guys on for more treasure? Just play another tile and get it. I'm not a big fan of "you determine the difficulty" type of approach. It should scale with the characters as they grow in power with some general guidelines and specifics rewards for making it more difficult.

If it's a sandbox, it isn't even a game let's face it. Calling it a sandbox is nothing more than creating an excuse for the flaws and failures of the undeveloped parts of the system. I bought this, thankfully on sale with the expectation that over time they will finish the game design. In reality, nobody really wants a sandbox, they want a game, but they put up with the sandbox in hopes that the game will eventually develop and figure things out better.

So the development of a scaling system will be an important part in the future of this game. If they are smart they will work on this and develop it.

There is no such thing as a sandbox in miniatures, rpg, and board gaming. All of these genres have structured rules and a developed base game to address these kinds of issues. They are games with elements of a sandbox.

So I wish people would stop calling this a sandbox because it isn't. It's a game with missing parts in it's development that over time really do need to be addressed if the game is to expand and have a long term future. I think they will be addressed, and could be addressed if people stop using the sandbox crutch and just ask Mercs to work on it. I think they will respond and the game will be better for it.
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