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Subject: Infinite Gold? rss

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Jay T Leone
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If a player has the right skills to hunt, what prevents him from obtaining >40 Gold by hunting in the same place over and over again? Doesn't this defeat the purpose of hunting the shadow?

First time I played, I felt the rewards for defeating a dark agent were really high. Then again, I played with a group of people who didn't know what they were doing, so there was minimal to no interference with another player (only I interfered, but people were getting mad at me for 'prolonging' the game, so I stopped).

Normally, will hunter groups who can clean out a deck
Spoiler (click to reveal)
i.e. barbarian and dwarf
be stoppable in a normal 3 player game?
 
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Antigonus Monophthalmus
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Yes, definitely. First of all, nobody's going to just stand back and let you hunt like that endlessly.

Second, there is a very important variant in the rulebook about setting a 16 turn time limit.

Third, there is another very important variant that maxes your gold out to 15, but I've never seen this as a problem.

Usually people don't get that far in my games, though. We play ruthlessly devil
 
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Jay T Leone
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Good to know. My group didn't know how to play ruthlessly, so I saw the potential for the game to go way out of proportion.
 
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Cameron McKenzie
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I've just been worrying about this exact thing... If a player protects his hunters and gets a good set of them, he can easily accumulate a vast amount of gold which the other players can't hope to compete with. This is a very bad thing as the other players are in a hopeless situation of being unable to catch up to the leader, but being unable to end the game without losing. Meanwhile, the leader may be having trouble ending the game since he needs certain skills to do it, and the other players are stopping him from getting it..
 
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Jay T Leone
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MasterDinadan wrote:
I've just been worrying about this exact thing... If a player protects his hunters and gets a good set of them, he can easily accumulate a vast amount of gold which the other players can't hope to compete with. This is a very bad thing as the other players are in a hopeless situation of being unable to catch up to the leader, but being unable to end the game without losing. Meanwhile, the leader may be having trouble ending the game since he needs certain skills to do it, and the other players are stopping him from getting it..


Precisely, if a player has the Princess and Royal Bodyguard Champion and the Witch Hunter, Barbarian, and Archmage Champion, they can keep hunting and no other player can touch them while they get infinite gold.

I think the 15 gold limit should be mandatory, otherwise the game has a possibility of never ending.
 
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Patrick Christenson
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jtrleone wrote:
MasterDinadan wrote:
I've just been worrying about this exact thing... If a player protects his hunters and gets a good set of them, he can easily accumulate a vast amount of gold which the other players can't hope to compete with. This is a very bad thing as the other players are in a hopeless situation of being unable to catch up to the leader, but being unable to end the game without losing. Meanwhile, the leader may be having trouble ending the game since he needs certain skills to do it, and the other players are stopping him from getting it..


Precisely, if a player has the Princess and Royal Bodyguard Champion and the Witch Hunter, Barbarian, and Archmage Champion, they can keep hunting and no other player can touch them while they get infinite gold.

I think the 15 gold limit should be mandatory, otherwise the game has a possibility of never ending.


Agreed. Not only that, but it forces people to play to win by beating the Shadow which makes for a much more interesting game. Wish we had realized this before printing.
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Craig Macbride
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jtrleone wrote:
Precisely, if a player has the Princess and Royal Bodyguard Champion and the Witch Hunter, Barbarian, and Archmage Champion, they can keep hunting and no other player can touch them while they get infinite gold.


If the other players were stupid enough to allow someone to do that and not outbid them for those characters (or force them high enough that they could only get one or two), surely they deserve to suffer.
 
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Cameron McKenzie
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Craig wrote:
jtrleone wrote:
Precisely, if a player has the Princess and Royal Bodyguard Champion and the Witch Hunter, Barbarian, and Archmage Champion, they can keep hunting and no other player can touch them while they get infinite gold.


If the other players were stupid enough to allow someone to do that and not outbid them for those characters (or force them high enough that they could only get one or two), surely they deserve to suffer.


It's not always that simple. You can't simply bid hunters up to stop a player from getting it, because you will win the hunters and eventually run out of shares. Then the other players will have an extremely easy time getting cheap hunters and you'll be stuck with few or no shares on your hero. You can fix this by "suiciding" your unwanted expensive hunters, but this also depends on a number of factors. You may actually suceed at the hunt, someone may intervene with an Elven Ranger or Paladin, or even a Necromancer.

Regardless, the issue is not that players in this situation are unable to win the game... is is the fact that there are situations in which NOBODY can win. The player in the lead may lack the skills to hunt the shadow, while the other players have the skills but not the money. I'm not saying that the game is going to last forever.. but it can drag on to such a length of time that it stops being fun for everybody. The lead player is frustrated if he can't get the skills he needs, and the other players are frustrated because no matter how much they hold back the lead player, they still aren't making any progress themselves.
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Antigonus Monophthalmus
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Well since this has been re-brought up anyways, I'd like to add that I have indeed seen the 15 gold thing as a problem, just recently. Paladin plus barbarian with so many protective cards... yeah... it was ridiculous. She won very quickly so it wasn't a "problem" problem, but we instantly adopted the 15 gold limit rule. There was just no way to undo that kind of advantage!
 
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Dan
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How does the 15 gold limit work? Doesn't that setup the game for a draw much of the time?

I've rarely seen 2 people with more than 10 gold, since we're fairly ruthless as well, but it seems like putting a limit on the gold amount, which determines the final score, would lead to people tied at the maximum.
 
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Patrick Christenson
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ytter wrote:
How does the 15 gold limit work? Doesn't that setup the game for a draw much of the time?

I've rarely seen 2 people with more than 10 gold, since we're fairly ruthless as well, but it seems like putting a limit on the gold amount, which determines the final score, would lead to people tied at the maximum.


The 15 gold limit does not count toward the reward you receive for defeating the shadow.
 
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Joshua Lobkowicz
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Seaborn wrote:
ytter wrote:
How does the 15 gold limit work? Doesn't that setup the game for a draw much of the time?

I've rarely seen 2 people with more than 10 gold, since we're fairly ruthless as well, but it seems like putting a limit on the gold amount, which determines the final score, would lead to people tied at the maximum.


The 15 gold limit does not count toward the reward you receive for defeating the shadow.


I have only played this once and was just browsing the forums but...couldn't you just put a gold limit that wins a player the game? Like...if a player acquired 60 before someone beats the shadow, they win?

Thematically, "The King will give you 40 gold for that beast? I'll give you 60 and then claim I killed it.
 
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Cameron McKenzie
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Karmic_devil wrote:
Seaborn wrote:
ytter wrote:
How does the 15 gold limit work? Doesn't that setup the game for a draw much of the time?

I've rarely seen 2 people with more than 10 gold, since we're fairly ruthless as well, but it seems like putting a limit on the gold amount, which determines the final score, would lead to people tied at the maximum.


The 15 gold limit does not count toward the reward you receive for defeating the shadow.


I have only played this once and was just browsing the forums but...couldn't you just put a gold limit that wins a player the game? Like...if a player acquired 60 before someone beats the shadow, they win?

Thematically, "The King will give you 40 gold for that beast? I'll give you 60 and then claim I killed it.


That would resolve the issue with the game dragging on too long, but it would also create a less interesting conclusion. Someone could simply ignore the prophecy altogether and just aim for the 60 gold win... I don't feel like it would add anything to the game. It would certainly weaken hunters and items which involve discovering or manipulating the prophecy... and most are already weak enough as it is.
 
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