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Subject: Alabama Supreme Court Blocks Same Sex Marriages rss

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Daniel Edwards
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Saw this on Huffington Post http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/03/alabama-same-sex-ma... with a link there to the judgement.

I was interested enough to do a quick scan and wow the Alabama supreme court justices take a tour of some of the worst anti-gay marriage arguments we've run through here in RSP. Gay people aren't prejudiced because they can always marry someone of the opposite gender just like straight people. Same sex marriage is just like polygamous marriage.

But the absolute best part is the lone dissent right at the back of the judgement where Shaw J delivers an almighty "what the fuck guys" at the majority for inventing jurisdiction and delivering what is essentially an advisory opinion on the behest of the two conservative group plaintiffs.

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Bimmy Jim
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I hate it when people defend traditional marriage... Marriage is nothing like how it used to be so why pick and choose what's "OK" to change and what's not.
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Boaty McBoatface
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BimmyJim wrote:
I hate it when people defend traditional marriage... Marriage is nothing like how it used to be so why pick and choose what's "OK" to change and what's not.
Because the constitutions states that the government cannot make laws about religi...hold on!
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C Bazler
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Hey, Alabama needs to preserve its own traditions. You know, like being our country's last bastion of reactionary, bigoted thinking during an inevitable and irreversible social change.

Wikipedia wrote:
In 1967, the United States Supreme Court unanimously ruled in Loving v. Virginia that anti-miscegenation laws are unconstitutional. With this ruling, these laws were no longer in effect in the remaining 16 states that at the time still enforced them. However, the active repeal of the laws was not complete until Alabama did so in 2000 after failing to do so in several earlier plebiscites on the matter.
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Daniel Edwards
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I read through the dissent again in detail because its quite hilarious.

No judge is ever going to overtly refer to his or her colleagues disrespectfully but the "what the fuck!?" is lurking just below the surface. I especially love the part where he reveals to the rest of the USA that the petitioners didn't even argue the US constitution point. The rest of the court just decided to determine it anyway.
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Lynette
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BimmyJim wrote:
I hate it when people defend traditional marriage... Marriage is nothing like how it used to be so why pick and choose what's "OK" to change and what's not.


You know it isn't like the people defending "traditional" marriage didn't fight tooth and nail against all those other changes too.

They lost, but 30 years ago these same groups were fighting against no-fault divorce laws etc. And fought to uphold morality clauses in contracts that would get people fired if they got caught committing adultery etc.

So most of them don't think any of these changes were "ok".
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J
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Ben Carson said homosexuality was a choice as evidenced by the number of straight men that go into prison, but gay men that come out...
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Chad Ellis
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Meerkat wrote:
BimmyJim wrote:
I hate it when people defend traditional marriage... Marriage is nothing like how it used to be so why pick and choose what's "OK" to change and what's not.


You know it isn't like the people defending "traditional" marriage didn't fight tooth and nail against all those other changes too.

They lost, but 30 years ago these same groups were fighting against no-fault divorce laws etc. And fought to uphold morality clauses in contracts that would get people fired if they got caught committing adultery etc.

So most of them don't think any of these changes were "ok".


The problem is, the changes go way beyond stuff like no fault divorce. Marriage used to transfer legal authority over a woman from one man to another. In the States it merged the woman into a legal subsidiary of her husband, no longer able to retain her wages, etc.

Moreover, those changes were changes to all civil marriages. There's a structural difference between "a marriage contract will henceforth be easier for one or both parties to dissolve and will no longer require that one party demonstrate infidelity, violence or similar breach" and, "civil marriage licenses will henceforth be available to couples of different races or the same sex."

So, yes, there are people who have resisted a number of changes to civil marriage. But when they talk about "traditional" marriage they generally don't mean "what it was fifty years ago" but make claims of thousands of years or all of human history. And when they do that, they deserve to have bullshit called on selective application of tradition.
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Agent J
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What? No, I'm totally for my wife being a subsidiary to me. And when you look at it that way, how do you even KNOW who's becoming a subsidiary in this new marriage definition???
 
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Jythier wrote:
What? No, I'm totally for my wife being a subsidiary to me. And when you look at it that way, how do you even KNOW who's becoming a subsidiary in this new marriage definition???


That's easy. It's none of your business.
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Agent J
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MWChapel wrote:
Jythier wrote:
What? No, I'm totally for my wife being a subsidiary to me. And when you look at it that way, how do you even KNOW who's becoming a subsidiary in this new marriage definition???


That's easy. It's none of your business.


It's not, but it IS the government's.
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Donald
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Jythier wrote:
What? No, I'm totally for my wife being a subsidiary to me. And when you look at it that way, how do you even KNOW who's becoming a subsidiary in this new marriage definition???


Being equals is out of the question?

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James King
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Meerkat wrote:
BimmyJim wrote:
I hate it when people defend traditional marriage... Marriage is nothing like how it used to be so why pick and choose what's "OK" to change and what's not.

You know it isn't like the people defending "traditional" marriage didn't fight tooth and nail against all those other changes too.

They lost, but 30 years ago these same groups were fighting against no-fault divorce laws etc. And fought to uphold morality clauses in contracts that would get people fired if they got caught committing adultery etc.

So most of them don't think any of these changes were "ok".

But of course, the real underlying issue here isn't whether gay people should be allowed to marry as it is whether they should be allowed to exist at all.

After all, many, if not most, of the Religious Far Right involved in promoting those so-called "Religious Freedom/Protection" laws have also been actively promoting their own Anti-Gay Crusade over the past 20 years.

Essentially, the Religious Far Right's worldview is that the very notion of gay marriage would be an non-viable concept if there weren't any more gay people. Moreover, since the Religious Far Right believes homosexuality to be a matter of choice, they believe that homosexuals can be "reformed" or "cured" via "Gay Conversion/Reparative Therapy".

But failing that, the Religious Far Right has already tipped their hand as to what they actually believe should be the final solution for gays who fail or refuse to be "cured", namely, prison and/or execution. (Noteworthily enough, the latter -- execution -- was the preferred solution advanced by members of American Religious Far Right anti-gay groups who helped Ugandan and Russian legislators craft anti-gay laws over there.)


 
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Josh
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I enjoy how States' rights never seems to refer to interesting disputes about how to fund infrastructure, but seem to exclusively to involve cases of "holy shit we need to deprive this minority group from a legal protection or else Western civilization will decline blargle blargle."
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Chad Ellis
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Jythier wrote:
What? No, I'm totally for my wife being a subsidiary to me. And when you look at it that way, how do you even KNOW who's becoming a subsidiary in this new marriage definition???


When two companies merge and one company's senior people are all fired, that's a clue to which company was really acquired.

When two people merge and one person loses the right to enter contracts, keep their wages, vote (if they were allowed to in the first place), etc., that's a clue to which person became a subsidiary.
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James King
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JoshBot wrote:
I enjoy how States' rights never seems to refer to interesting disputes about how to fund infrastructure, but seem to exclusively to involve cases of "holy shit we need to deprive this minority group from a legal protection or else Western civilization will decline blargle blargle."

Well, what do you expect from folks who still cherish the "ideals" of the Old Confederacy and who hold Confederate President Jefferson Davis in much higher esteem than they do the Preserver of the Union, Abraham Lincoln?


 
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Agent J
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Chad_Ellis wrote:
Jythier wrote:
What? No, I'm totally for my wife being a subsidiary to me. And when you look at it that way, how do you even KNOW who's becoming a subsidiary in this new marriage definition???


When two companies merge and one company's senior people are all fired, that's a clue to which company was really acquired.

When two people merge and one person loses the right to enter contracts, keep their wages, vote (if they were allowed to in the first place), etc., that's a clue to which person became a subsidiary.


Exactly. Nowadays, that doesn't happen to anyone!
 
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Lee Fisher
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Jythier wrote:
Chad_Ellis wrote:
Jythier wrote:
What? No, I'm totally for my wife being a subsidiary to me. And when you look at it that way, how do you even KNOW who's becoming a subsidiary in this new marriage definition???


When two companies merge and one company's senior people are all fired, that's a clue to which company was really acquired.

When two people merge and one person loses the right to enter contracts, keep their wages, vote (if they were allowed to in the first place), etc., that's a clue to which person became a subsidiary.


Exactly. Nowadays, that doesn't happen to anyone!


If you don't know, you are probably the subsidiary.
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