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Dead of Winter: A Crossroads Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Secret objectives for exiled players and betrayers rss

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Hello,

Tomorrow I will play the game the first time and we decided to not look at the cards before playing. (It sounds somewhat boring to know all possible Crossroad cards in advance.)

However, I guess we should at least need to know somewhat about the main goals of other players.

* The betrayer always has two goals, just as the loyal players, correct? And instead of wanting the main goal to be achieved, he wants a moral of zero?
* Do exiled loyal players still need the main goal to be achieved in order to win and only get their secrete objective changed?
* Do exiled betrayers only need to fulfill one (probably rather hard) secrete objective? Or do they still need a moral of zero?

Please do not write about detailed examples, I‘m fine with a "Yes, you are correct in all three questions"-kind of an answer. If there is one card which works only slightly differently, that‘s fine and a nice surprise.

Thanks in advance, Keba
 
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Ossian Grr aka "Josh"
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Spoiler-free answers:

Keba wrote:
* The betrayer always has two goals, just as the loyal players, correct? And instead of wanting the main goal to be achieved, he wants a moral of zero?


Secret Objectives always have at least 2 (but sometimes 3 or 4) conditions to fulfill. Just follow the goals on the card.


Keba wrote:
* Do exiled loyal players still need the main goal to be achieved in order to win and only get their secrete objective changed? * Do exiled betrayers only need to fulfill one (probably rather hard) secrete objective? Or do they still need a moral of zero?


Exiled Objectives have a variety of effects. They may or may not require completing the main goal, whether you are a betrayer or not.
When you receive an Exiled Objective, it tells you what to do with your previous objective. If you were not a Betrayer, it replaces your old objective. If you were a Betrayer, you keep your old objective and the Exiled Objective modifies it.
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Peter Mulholland
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SPOILER FREE!!!

Keba wrote:
The betrayer always has two goals, just as the loyal players, correct? And instead of wanting the main goal to be achieved, he wants a moral of zero?


There is some cases where the betrayer has more than two, but yes you have idea.


Keba wrote:
Do exiled loyal players still need the main goal to be achieved in order to win and only get their secrete objective changed?


It depends on what their secret objective is. Sometimes they want the main objective to be completed (from a theme point of view they are still loyal), sometimes they want to wreck the colony (they don't feel being exiled was fair so they want revenge!)

Keba wrote:
Do exiled betrayers only need to fulfill one (probably rather hard) secrete objective? Or do they still need a moral of zero?


Again it all depends one what Exiled objective they draw. They might be even more annoyed with the colony and want it to burn, or they might see the errors of their ways and want to help!

I think the main thing is that all the cards will explain nice and clearly what the player has to do, using clear text and the symbols found throughout the game (food, tools, medicine etc. etc.). While not looking at any of the cards is great (I did the same, I know there is CrossRoad cards my group hasn't seen, and we've only ever exiled one person so still have plenty of those come up!), what I would probably do is take a regular (meaning non-betrayer) secret objective and show it to the whole group at the start of the game so they can see how it is laid out on the card, an example of the sort of thing they might get etc. etc. Then you can either put it in the box and not use it that game, or shuffle it into the pack so someone may or may not have it. That way at least they will have an idea of what it will look like. But I honestly think the cards are so well written, clear and simple people shouldn't have a problem with the betrayer and exiled objectives (especially if you show them an example).

Hope that helps!

ninja'd by Josh
 
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Thannks a lot for your answers, they are helpful. But just to clarify: I did not ask these questions because I feared not knowing what my goal is, but I rather feared totally (mis-) trusting another player because of a wrong "his goal is to …" mindset.

So: Betrayers want the moral down to zero and exiled may or may not want anything good to happen. That‘s the important part of information here. A "he is exiled, so he is loyal now" attitude could be very fatal.

Regards, Keba
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Peter Mulholland
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Yep you're right.

I think at the end of the day, you never know until the end of the game what a player wants. You don't know if they are the betrayer, and if someone gets exiled you still don't know what they want. The card might tell them to reveal if they were the betrayer or not, but you still don't know what their new, Exiled Objective is.

So essentially, you can never trust anyone...
 
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Follow up questions:

* I just read one exiled card: Revenge. For non-betrayes it says "You have the following secret objective: At least five survivors must have been removed from the game (helpless survivors do not count)" (I translated my German version, maybe the wording is somewhat different.) That means that player does not need to play for the main objective and only needs to kill a few characters. Sounds somewhat easy, doesn‘t it? Does they instantly win, whenever five survivors are dead? So, it could happen "Damn it, exiled. Let me read my card. Well, seems I have won then, game‘s over."

* The same card does only explicitly tells the non-betrayer to reveal his old card, so I guess the betrayer will not reveal his card then. However, the rules state that after exiling two non-betrayers, the moral drops instantly down to zero – how to figure out whether the exiled players are betrayers or not, if they do not necessarily reveal their card?

Thanks in advance, Keba
 
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Ken Marley
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All exile objectives ask loyal player to revel their objective.

All exile objectives ask traitor players to NOT revel their objective.

So if an exile player revels their objective they were loyal, if they do not they were the traitor, so you will always know if two loyal players were exiled.

The game ends in only one of three ways:

1) Morale goes to zero.

2) Main objective completed.

3) Round marker goes to zero.

If the exiled player completes their new objective they must wait until one of the three game end conditions above are met.
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Keba wrote:
* The same card does only explicitly tells the non-betrayer to reveal his old card, so I guess the betrayer will not reveal his card then. However, the rules state that after exiling two non-betrayers, the moral drops instantly down to zero – how to figure out whether the exiled players are betrayers or not, if they do not necessarily reveal their card?


Because:
a) There's only one Betrayer.
and
b) Only non-Betrayers (and always) reveal their card when Exiled (at least according to currently-printed Exiled Objectives; since it is based on card text, expansions are free to change this)



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Keba wrote:
For non-betrayes it says "You have the following secret objective: At least five survivors must have been removed from the game (helpless survivors do not count)" (I translated my German version, maybe the wording is somewhat different.) That means that player does not need to play for the main objective and only needs to kill a few characters. Sounds somewhat easy, doesn‘t it? Does they instantly win, whenever five survivors are dead? So, it could happen "Damn it, exiled. Let me read my card. Well, seems I have won then, game‘s over."


My guess is something may have been lost in translation, as all secret objectives require moral dropping to zero (betrayers), or completion of main objective (non-betrayal). I will check the card text for that one and confirm when I get back from work. I would be surprised if it was purely "5 survivors removed from the game", because as you pointed out that could be very easy (depending on how your game is going...)
 
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PeterM2158 wrote:
Keba wrote:
For non-betrayes it says "You have the following secret objective: At least five survivors must have been removed from the game (helpless survivors do not count)" (I translated my German version, maybe the wording is somewhat different.) That means that player does not need to play for the main objective and only needs to kill a few characters. Sounds somewhat easy, doesn‘t it? Does they instantly win, whenever five survivors are dead? So, it could happen "Damn it, exiled. Let me read my card. Well, seems I have won then, game‘s over."


My guess is something may have been lost in translation, as all secret objectives require moral dropping to zero (betrayers), or completion of main objective (non-betrayal). I will check the card text for that one and confirm when I get back from work. I would be surprised if it was purely "5 survivors removed from the game", because as you pointed out that could be very easy (depending on how your game is going...)


Peter: He was talking about an Exiled Objective's "non-betrayer clause", which may or may not hinge on morale/main objective/other.
 
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jozxyqk wrote:
PeterM2158 wrote:
Keba wrote:
For non-betrayes it says "You have the following secret objective: At least five survivors must have been removed from the game (helpless survivors do not count)" (I translated my German version, maybe the wording is somewhat different.) That means that player does not need to play for the main objective and only needs to kill a few characters. Sounds somewhat easy, doesn‘t it? Does they instantly win, whenever five survivors are dead? So, it could happen "Damn it, exiled. Let me read my card. Well, seems I have won then, game‘s over."


My guess is something may have been lost in translation, as all secret objectives require moral dropping to zero (betrayers), or completion of main objective (non-betrayal). I will check the card text for that one and confirm when I get back from work. I would be surprised if it was purely "5 survivors removed from the game", because as you pointed out that could be very easy (depending on how your game is going...)


Peter: He was talking about an Exiled Objective's "non-betrayer clause", which may or may not hinge on morale/main objective/other.


Yeah I know, but he was questioning whether when five survivors have been removed, that player has completed their condition so do they stop the game? Either way I'm going to check the card when I get home as I'm curious now
 
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After playing the game today (we had a lot of fun), it seems that killing five survivors might not be that easy. In three three-players rounds (with short and easy main objectives and not a single betrayer) only a total of three player died. So it is harder than it sounds at first: If you have to kill 4-5 players after you got exiled, you may easily drop the moral to zero and lose. At the very least getting five survivors killed is way harder than most secret objectives.

tl;dr: Meanwhile I think the card text is fine at is.

Regards, Keba
 
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