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Subject: Tactical Suprise usage rss

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Neil Ardron
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Just a quick question regarding the use of the "Tactical Surprise" card. It states that you get 2 die-roll shifts in one land battle, does that include battles where the defender used a city or town? If so then does it not then become an better version of the "Poliorcates Effect" card which only works when attacking a town or city? There does not seem to be a distinction in the rules between siege and field combat.
 
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Michael @mgouker
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Tactical Surprise is for any combat at all.

Edit: Land battle that is. So yes it can work for your city defense too.


Oops I was wrong. Check below for the official clarification.
 
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Neil Ardron
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Thanks we had played it that way, but in the two games we've played so far Carthage has drawn either a suprise or the siege engine card during the first turn and used it to take Syracuse. With tactical surprise giving shifts on cities there are 3 cards, so in 4 activations there is almost 1/4 chance of getting one.
After they wrap up the Sicilys (getting lots of GOP and CVP) it seems inevitable they would win (we were playing scenario 6 so the East could not get at Carthage easily)
 
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Neil Randall
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Quote:
There does not seem to be a distinction in the rules between siege and field combat.


There isn't, except of course for the cities and towns rules. Siege combat is built into those rules (because of the game scale).

nardron wrote:
in the two games we've played so far Carthage has drawn either a suprise or the siege engine card during the first turn and used it to take Syracuse.


Okay. Sounds reasonable, but isn't Rome contesting it?

Quote:
With tactical surprise giving shifts on cities there are 3 cards, so in 4 activations there is almost 1/4 chance of getting one.


I doubt there's that high a chance that any one player would get one - just that someone will get one. To be honest, though, I haven't experienced anywhere near that kind of frequency with these cards.

If I had a do-over, I would probably make the Tac Surprise cards not applicable against cities or towns, but it's fine as it is.

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After they wrap up the Sicilys (getting lots of GOP and CVP) it seems inevitable they would win


Why does it seem inevitable? Still lots of game to go, isn't there?

Neil
 
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William Payne
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In historic game, East can take Egypt on first turn fairly easy(little luck helps). Then should be primed for some Carth bashing.
East is more powerfull in historic game I think than it is in regular game.(no more successor war problems)

Hey, do you guys treat Egypt provinces as home provinces for the sake of East controling them? If so, does that still apply after Egypt is removed?
 
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Colin Hunter
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not sure but with "Poliorcates Effect" can't you play and get the card out of your hand. That way it doesn't get discarded or clog your hand? I'm not saying I'd rather have poliorcates effect, but it isn't identical, but worse. To honest, hardly think carthage taking scicily gives them the game, even in the historical scenario. Cartage is going to win the first turns VP for territory unless someone else is good and carthage is crap or gets beaten on, by who I don't know. Even turn two unless carthage is attacked (which it should be) it could very well get lots of vps again. They also have a good chance of getting some civ points aswell. Later on say after turn three, carthage's manpower problem, will be a serious issue for them and hanging onto anything that isn't an island will be hard. So no I don't see how carthage, even if it gets the sicilies get an insurmountable lead. If they are that good you can all just beat them up. I've seen a player capture the sicilies and Hispania in the first turn and still not win (but boy did they have a lot of GOP on the first turn).
Colin
 
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Richard H. Berg
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"If I had a do-over, I would probably make the Tac Surprise cards not applicable against cities or towns, but it's fine as it is."

No it isn't. The Tactical Surprise card was meant, by design, to be used only in field battles . . .it was NEVER meant to be used in Sieges. I suggest, Neil, a "Clarification" aboyt the use of that card . . .officially.

RHB
 
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Neil Randall
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BergBROG wrote:
The Tactical Surprise card was meant, by design, to be used only in field battles . . .it was NEVER meant to be used in Sieges. I suggest, Neil, a "Clarification" aboyt the use of that card . . .officially.

RHB


Will do. Thanks.

Okay, folks - we have the answer to this one. I'll post a clarification here and on CSW. But as of right now, it's official.

Change the description for the Tactical Surprise card to:

"This cards gives its player a Battle Die-Roll Shift of two (2) for any one Land Battle - but it may not be used (by either side) in a battle in which the Defender chooses to use a City or Town in the defense. This card may be held in Hand until played."

Neil
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Neil Ardron
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Perhaps it was just a "perfect storm"! A barbarian invasion was the pulled by the Greeks who used it against the Romans who had just built 2 cities in Cisalpine (in hind sight it would have been better to build cities in a circle around Rome) these 2 cities were destroyed when the East activated the Barbariens a second time; Rome had lost the whole turn and their starting cash. Rome being PO'd with the East made an agreement with the Greeks alowing them to concentrate their armies against the East.
The East had marched their army into Asia Minor only to have a slave revolt occur near Jerusalem, their activations had come out early so with only one left they had to deal with the slave revolt or else it would grow out of control (other players had lots of activations left).
For the first 6 turns Carthage got first for GOP and second for CVP; Greece was second for GOP and first for CVP - there was no way for the other two players to catch up!
Getting the Scilies early with minimal losses allows Carthage to hold off the Romans with Gallies and move almost her entire army into Spain and make short work of that region
 
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Neil Randall
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nardron wrote:
Perhaps it was just a "perfect storm"! A barbarian invasion was the pulled by the Greeks who used it against the Romans who had just built 2 cities in Cisalpine (in hind sight it would have been better to build cities in a circle around Rome) these 2 cities were destroyed when the East activated the Barbariens a second time;


Just pausing here to make sure you're aware that, once a Germanic Barbarian Invasion army is in place, ANY player may take control of it as their major move (the player drawing the card gets to use the Barbs and also a major move only when the card is actually drawn). So if Rome had received an AM between the two Greek ones, and assuming he wasn't desperately trying to do something else, he possibly could have marched the Barbs out of harm's way.

Quote:
Rome had lost the whole turn and their starting cash.


Been there. Done that.

Quote:
Rome being PO'd with the East made an agreement with the Greeks alowing them to concentrate their armies against the East.


Excellent. Good move.

Quote:
The East had marched their army into Asia Minor only to have a slave revolt occur near Jerusalem, their activations had come out early so with only one left they had to deal with the slave revolt or else it would grow out of control (other players had lots of activations left).


Slave revolts against other players are my favorite event in this game. I love watching them grow. Thoroughly distracting to plans of conquest.

Quote:
For the first 6 turns Carthage got first for GOP and second for CVP; Greece was second for GOP and first for CVP - there was no way for the other two players to catch up!


Yes, that can happen. Could the East and Greece called off their war while Rome and East took on Carthage? Still might not be enough time, but things can change quite quickly.

Quote:
Getting the Scilies early with minimal losses allows Carthage to hold off the Romans with Gallies and move almost her entire army into Spain and make short work of that region


If Rome gets unlucky early on, this is possible. But it's largely up to Rome to stop Carthage, so they need a navy quickly (as they did historically, of course). I recommend the Roman player always uses some Talents from the first batch to build ships. Three will probably do, because three galleys can usually punch a hole in Carthage's cordon defense (Carth can't defend everything with multiple galleys).
 
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