Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
19 Posts

Ghostbusters: The Board Game» Forums » General

Subject: Still no rulebook! rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Chris Evans
United States
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm holding my pledge for now, but I may back out last minute. I'm still not convinced that there is much of a game here and Cryptozoic has thus far refused to pull the veil back on the full rules/scenarios. Lack of transparency never bodes well for the publisher's confidence in the gameplay. Are they ashamed of the design?

I've watched all 3 gameplay videos in full. I'm asking for the full rulebook. I want to see the rules and all scenarios and campaigns. Contrary to what others say, plenty of KS projects have a rulebook available day 1. Just in the last week, every new KS I was interested in had a PDF of the rules for me to peruse. There's no good excuse for why this has not happened yet on a project that wants this amount of money from each backer.


5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tommy Rayburn
United States
Virginia
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
This is quite normal not to receive a full rulebook.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stokes
United States
Chatham
Illinois
flag msg tools
BoardGameGeek
badge
BoardGameGeek
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Jumpman78 wrote:
I'm asking for the full rulebook. I want to see the rules and all scenarios and campaigns.


I agree that a rulebook is necessary before making a decision, and perhaps an example scenario. If you can't make a decision with that, you probably won't be satisfied with the game. I think asking for all scenarios and campaigns is a little too much to expect.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Evans
United States
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Not in my experience. Tons of games on KS, ESPECIALLY from big name publishers, have had PDFs of the rules on day 1. Off the top of my head just this week, Between Two Cities and Bottom of the 9th had rules up.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
L VonMeister
United States
Missouri
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think CZE said the rules weren't 100% finalized yet - hence just the rules primer that is available.
They said they are working on incorporating a couple of things that backers have suggested (and probably finalizing some other stuff).

Some campaigns put up full rules right out of the gate and some don't. I don't think Shadows of Brimstone put up a rulebook until later in the campaign (or maybe even after). Kickstarter can be a bit of a gamble sometimes.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
L VonMeister
United States
Missouri
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Okay then, so you're not a fan of what's out and you don't like that they don't have a rulebook to give you, and you don't trust what they tell you about not providing a complete rulebook.
I accept all of this.

So, what's the agenda here?
3 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
L VonMeister
United States
Missouri
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Jumpman78 wrote:
No agenda, I just want rules for the game. LOL.

Fair enough.

Just by your zeal - posting this multiple times in the Comments section as well as creating this thread here - it has a tendency feel more like an anti-campaign than a request.

I don't think you're request is out of line at all. It just looks like you're not going to get what you want (it's been requested by others in the Comments, but has been largely dropped because of CZE's answers to the questioning) and repeated requests/complaints isn't likely to change anything. Maybe I'm wrong.

If you didn't already know, a backer and BGG member did a PNP version of the game and played it with his family based only on the Rules Primer and sample Scenario (the one from the first video I think). He had positive things to say about it all in his short review, so I'd check that out.

If you're looking for reasons to back the game or NOT to back the game, you'll find them.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Evans
United States
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Here's the deal...I LOVE Ghostbusters. I LOVE board games. So a Ghostbusters Board Game is a high stakes proposition. I want it to be done right. What does "right" mean? It means hardcore fan service (which has been decent for the most part) and a game design that is sound (not sure on this one).

How do we vet the design? We say that if you took the theme away and were left with just the mechanics themselves, would that make for a good/fun game? Or does the THEME make this game? Judging by the 3 play videos, this looks like it is highly dependent on dice rolling for everything. And you know, I can live with that I guess. Redundancy is what I am concerned about. The gameplay looks redundant. So that is why I am concerned with the big picture (rules/scenarios/campaigns). I want to see that there is variety here, that there is a "game" here and not just an excuse to play with Ghostbusters toys.

I posted in both places because I find the Kickstarter comment section for this particular campaign to be so fast moving that it's just white noise. It's also a lot of people who are invested financially in this and they are going to therefore defend everything CZE does for some reason. Stockholm syndrome perhaps . Me? I understand my role here. I am a consumer. Cryptozoic is a publisher. They are making a game and expecting at least $100 out of me. They need to sell the game to people. So far, it seems a majority are blinded by the IP and just don't care about the game itself.

I WANT this campaign to succeed. Make no mistake! This is a dream game, I just hope Cryptozoic does it justice. It unfortunately feels like a cash grab the way it has been executed.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
L VonMeister
United States
Missouri
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I hope they do too! I'm totally with you on that.

Judging by most of the stuff I've seen about it, yes the theme pretty much makes the game. It's Ameritrash. I love Ameritrash, and I own a great deal of it (too much in gf's opinion). If you abhor Ameritrash, then pocket your cash and run away. It's theme over game - in spades. It's pretty obvious. I have a feeling you know all this already.
I'd say if you're expecting anything really innovative or new, in the way of mechanics, I doubt you're going to find it. I personally think it's still going to be fun though.
IMO, there was enough information in the videos and in what they have revealed to come to a decision. That's just me though. "Ghostbusters," honestly, is really what sold it for me. It was a gimme.

Monotony? Yeah, there's a risk of that. But I don't think there's any game in my collection that wouldn't feel repetitious after a few dozen plays. They are boardgames, after all, and are limited in their components. Boardgames are made/broken often by those who play them. Play with the right group and it can be wonderfully memorable.

First time I played Arkham Horror I hated it. I played it at a FLGS with a bunch of people I didn't know on one of their boardgame nights. Terrible. Months later, I played it at a friend of a friend's house (I knew the majority of the people there) and it was great - we had an amazing time playing for 3 hours and losing.

This is just a long form version of saying: hey, you're a GB fan - looks like the game is going to be okay. Better than okay in my estimation, but that's subjective. With some great GB minis on top of that? I dig it.

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
L VonMeister
United States
Missouri
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Jumpman78 wrote:
I posted in both places because I find the Kickstarter comment section for this particular campaign to be so fast moving that it's just white noise.


Yeah, I understand that. It's moving very quickly with all the Yeti, Phineas, ice cream, and Goat nonsense going on. I lurk there fairly often to try and glean some info and get some updates from the comments, but damn it can be a chore with all that crap in there. It's like a cult with some of 'em, and if you ask them to just ease off a bit and leave room for actual information then they all strike.

That's why I simply lurk and don't bother to comment. Someone will ask my question sooner or later.

I'd say stick with it man - I don't think you'll regret it.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Evans
United States
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yeah, I think I will likely stick with it because I'm a sucker for Ghostbusters. It will be the most expensive game I've ever bought by a mile.

I guess here is something that would make it more "meaty". What if they did a Mice and Mystics approach where there is a narrative and the game unfolds as such? That is why I am wondering about the campaigns, I was curious to see if maybe there is a story for the scenarios or some level of roleplaying. Or some element of property destruction thrown in there.

But I see what you are saying by Ameritrash. I guess I hoped for more variety than what the gameplay videos were showing (I admit, I fell asleep in the middle of video 3, but the Slimer battle was interesting). You saw in that Slimer battle what plain old bad dice rolls can get you. But at the same time, the XP element of the characters does help mitigate that a bit since there are re-rolls involved at the higher XP levels.

Thanks, I guess I was in denial that this is Ameritrash. The GB fan in me I think just wanted more than that for a beloved franchise.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Evans
United States
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
With all the love for the comic book, I am surprised that we don't have several scenarios/campaigns that are based on issues of the comic. Or there could be a "classic campaign" that parallels the movies. These could all have rich narratives that go along with them so you get immersed in the experience. Event cards could be triggered that change the situations on the fly (like maybe the Crossroads cards from Dead of Winter).
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
L VonMeister
United States
Missouri
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Jumpman78 wrote:
I guess here is something that would make it more "meaty". What if they did a Mice and Mystics approach where there is a narrative and the game unfolds as such? That is why I am wondering about the campaigns, I was curious to see if maybe there is a story for the scenarios or some level of roleplaying. Or some element of property destruction thrown in there.

I'd love to see some of that development happen, but CZE reps have already referred to this as a "gateway" game.
I have heard some mention of Campaigns, so maybe there are some stringed-along scenarios with some ongoing effects between.

I'm in both camps - I do like the story games of M&M and Shadows of Brimstone type stuff, but games like SoBS after a while make me want to play something with not so many freakin' cards!
Not that I hate it - I just want a break from it for a while.

Revel in the Ameritrash, friend.



EDIT: There may be hope yet for some scenarios or campaigns based on some of the comic stories - I'd be more inclined to want to spam THAT all over the Comments section and fight through all that Yeti crap.
There have been a couple of people on the board mention Event cards and Event decks in all the white noise of the Comments. That's something I'm seriously considering possibly undertaking myself. There is a TON of event possibilities with all the source material that exists.
A really cool Event deck or Crossroads-style deck could help breathe extra life in an otherwise stale scenario.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Greg Gresik
United States
Bolingbrook
IL
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I am with the OP here. I have learned (especially on Kickstarter) that cool theme, or cool minis does NOT always (or even usually) equal a good game.

Sadly, many companies seem to just throw a bunch of cool looking minis or a hot theme up on KS - then the game play itself is usually very subpar. Sadly KS history is littered with literally hundreds of examples - and only a handful of games where the actual game play itself lived up the expectation.

Honestly, when it comes to KS projects at this point, I prefer to err on the side of NOT backing it - and waiting until others have played it, reviewed it and found it to be at least a decent game.

There are a few exceptions (I was an "early adapter" for the Tiny Epic series - and was glad to be) - but usually those have been at lower price points.

I've seen plenty of $80+ KS games where the "game" itself is not worth even half that money. I'd rather have a good game with cardboard chits than a box full of minis that doesn't play well as a game, as one will get played. Sadly, KS has all too often delivered the latter.

As such, I always want to see rules, maybe even a PnP to try, etc.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
L VonMeister
United States
Missouri
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Well Greg, I hear you there.
If you aren't a huge Ghostbusters nut and aren't already sold on that alone, then gameplay is a much more important concern.
IMO, I don't think I'd recommend it solely for the game.

Also, if you ALWAYS want to see the rules then there are going to be fair amount of KS campaigns you'll have to overlook.
Would be great if all companies had a finished rulebook to post (or at least 99% finished) but they don't - for a short-list of reasons.
Does that hurt their backing? Yeah, probably so. But some good gameplay videos can alleviate that some - along with the company's reputation for creating good games.

EDIT:
PNP would be fantastic, BTW.
Another BGG member did this already and played it (I mentioned before). Take a gander at what he said about it if you haven't already.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian Lombard
United States
New Carlisle
OH
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I have done my own PNP of the game. My daughter and I really enjoyed it. It's not very deep but I am perfectly happy with it. There are a lot of decisions that need to be made during a game that kept it from being ho hum. Many game got exciting due to things getting out of control.

The one thing I added to the rules in our game was a "focus" token. Each Ghostbuster gets 1 focus token at the beginning of a round. They can only ever have one. They may spend that token to add a +1 to one combat roll. This helped to offset the games that went very very badly due to bad dice rolls.

Some people will hate that rule, but it increased the overall enjoyment for my family with the PNP we made. It combos amazingly well with Egon and Kylie. They were really fun to play (Especially Kylie) with that rule in play.

It does make the game a tad bit easier, but depending on the scenario they can be pretty brutal. I have seen 5 scenarios (one that Mataio the designer kind of slipped to me (the basic goals not the entire scenario) and with that information I put together a trial approximation and it was fun (hard though) even with the extra +1 focus token house rule.

Oh, and scenarios are really easy to make. For example, we did one with a Civil War general as a Ghost and he kept spawning soldiers when we missed him. When we hit him his soldiers would move 1 space towards or away from the nearest ghostbuster (attempting to get within 3 spaces of the ghostbuster) then they would fire their ghostly guns. on a d6 roll of 5 or 6 (similar to the spectral ghostbusters in the actual game)the would place a slime token on the nearest ghostbuster within line of sight. The scenario started with 7 class 1 soldiers on the board. We just proxied the ghosts. There were more rules but you get the picture. It was a ton of fun and hard to boot.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Johan Haglert
Sweden
Örebro
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
revel911 wrote:
This is quite normal not to receive a full rulebook.
Yeah.

Sedition wars didn't had one.

And that totally sucked it seem. Or had a bad one.

Myth didn't either had one.

.. outcome was the same there too.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Johan Haglert
Sweden
Örebro
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Nikoms wrote:
I am with the OP here. I have learned (especially on Kickstarter) that cool theme, or cool minis does NOT always (or even usually) equal a good game.

Sadly, many companies seem to just throw a bunch of cool looking minis or a hot theme up on KS - then the game play itself is usually very subpar. Sadly KS history is littered with literally hundreds of examples - and only a handful of games where the actual game play itself lived up the expectation.

Honestly, when it comes to KS projects at this point, I prefer to err on the side of NOT backing it - and waiting until others have played it, reviewed it and found it to be at least a decent game.

There are a few exceptions (I was an "early adapter" for the Tiny Epic series - and was glad to be) - but usually those have been at lower price points.

I've seen plenty of $80+ KS games where the "game" itself is not worth even half that money. I'd rather have a good game with cardboard chits than a box full of minis that doesn't play well as a game, as one will get played. Sadly, KS has all too often delivered the latter.

As such, I always want to see rules, maybe even a PnP to try, etc.
Guess one should design the game first.

And if it's good then think of the possible minis..
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Elwyn Chow
Australia
flag msg tools
mb
aliquis wrote:
Guess one should design the game first.

And if it's good then think of the possible minis..


Yeah, but that would take effort and skill.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.