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Commands & Colors: Ancients» Forums » General

Subject: What is the difference between 1st and 2nd ed.? rss

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Tony Lam
Hong Kong
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Hi, Everyone. I would like to know what is the difference between 1st and 2nd edition. here is the difference I know.

1) Dice has more weigth and bigger to fit with the sticker.

2) updated rules book

3) 5 more scenarios

4) Updated reference sheet with new units

5) Separated rule book and scenario book.

For 2), What is the difference in rule and errata? because I owned the 1st edition. And I don't really want to print out the whole 2nd rule book. I just would like to know the new rules change and errata. Thanks

For 3) Is the Truceless War Scenarios the new 5 scenarios in the 2nd edition? And is there any update on the original scenarios?

Thank you very much,
Tony
 
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Kevin Duke
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Starting at the bottom.

1. No, "Truceless War" is a set of 5 scenarios created for some convention play this past summer. They all center on a campaign that occurred between the 1st and 2nd Punic Wars.

The "5 new scenarios" are, for the p500 folks of the 1st edition, really just "2 new." As a p500 bonus, there was a small booklet with 3 additional scenarios beyond the 10 which came inside the 1st edition rulebook. Two more battles have been added to them which the p500 people did not get, and a pretty bad glitch in one of the original 3 has been fixed. For those who did not p500, it is 5 extra scenarios beyond the 10 which came with the game.

I think that answers a couple of your questions.

The "rules" addition/changes part of 2nd edition is very minimal, and if you will scan around here you will find some postings by the designer which suggest that even some of those minimal changes had some errata problems (which have been corrected in the downloadable version). Beyond changes, there are a number of clarifications and some improvements in explanations. As you note, the 2nd rules also include instructions on the new units to be found in the first expansion.

I was a little surprised when I realized the core of your question, for I thought it would center on whether there is enough different in 2nd Edition that someone who owns 1st really "needs" to buy a 2nd. I think most gamers would say "no" to that. But your question is really just whether you should print out the downloadable rules? While I realize that the things you download will not be a finished, factory printed piece, getting the new information in one place-- especially if you have ordered the expansion (which we were told will not have a rulebook) is a pretty easy choice for most people. This is not one of those cases where you can just look on a page and say, "all they did here was add this one paragraph." I'd suggest you go through 5 or 6 pages, taken at random, and compare the book in your hands with what is downloadable and then see if you feel the need to print.
 
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Tony Lam
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Thanks Kevin for your quick reply.Now I see the difference is not that much.

I always want to have a high quality rule book with me while I am playing game. But my poor printer would not print me a good quality rule book. So I just want to print out those rules change/errata to supplement the original rule books. Then I don't have to throw away the 1st ed rule book.


But I have looked around the forum. There is no Post summarising the all the differences. Not even on the official website. Therefore, I hope to bring this out. To point out the difference between 2 versions.

Thanks Kevin to help me to point this out.

Cheers,
Tony
 
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Chester
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Also, the printing the 2nd edition rules will not give you the card manifest as the 1st edition has. That's my understanding...
 
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Kevin Duke
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Correct. 1st edition had the text of every card and a breakdown of how many of each type.
 
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Antonio Chavez
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So, let me retake the question in a slightly different way:

Right now, Thoughthammer has C&C First Edition for $39, and the Second Edition for $45.50. So, is there enough to the 2nd Ed. to justfy an extra 6.50? Which one to order?

Thanks for any insight.
 
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Kevin Duke
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Well, 2nd edition has 2 scenarios that are not in first edition, plus a corrected scenario that was in 1st with a real glitch.

These scenarios are all downloadable, but it's nice having the original.

In fact, Thoughthammer's 1st edition might not have the 'bonus' scenarios (which were originally only for p500 folks), so you'd be talking 10 scenarios-- stapled into the rule book-- versus 15 scenarios in a nice, free standing piece.

2nd-- and where most people will start-- 2nd edition will have solid dice. Complaints of 1st edition dice fill several threads here. The dice alone are worth 6 or 7 bucks.

3rd. the 2nd edition stickers-- dice and blocks-- were supposed to be given a "coating" which helps reduce wear, which was a real problem with 1st edition.

4th. the 2nd edition "reference sheet" has entries for the new units being added in the expansion game. While the expansion should have charts of its own, it's a choice of having 4 charts that work for everything or 2 that are 'current' and 2 others which are out of date.

It's true that some games have a greater "collector value" for 1st edition, but I suspect this one is not going to be that way-- for the reasons above and others.

Anyone else care to add in?
 
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Douglas S
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I thought I saw somewhere that one type of unit has different movement/firing rules in the 2nd edition?


True?
 
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Kevin Duke
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Only partly.

RB made it so that ranged fire into certain types of terrain was somewhat penalized-- Shooters only get one die into those terrain types whether or not they move.

The other change involved close combat within certain terrain-- like, it now is worse to be standing in a river/creek hex than next to it-- but that is not just for one unit.
 
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Douglas S
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Thanks Kevin. I'll have to check that in the new rules to understand the changes further.

 
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Matthew Thrift
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There were no rules changes. The changes to effects of terrain from the first edition are acknowledged errata and corrected in the living rules. There are additions to the rules for the new units in the planned expansions. None of the new units are included in the 2nd edition. The card manifest is present in the back of the rulebook. It is not included in the living rules posted online.
 
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Chris Johnson
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My second edition game came with a unit of heavy war machines. They don't seem to be used in any scenarios. Were they included in the first ed. as well?

 
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Ken Takacs
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kriz wrote:
My second edition game came with a unit of heavy war machines. They don't seem to be used in any scenarios. Were they included in the first ed. as well?



Yes, they were included in the first edition. I know that the war machines are used in the Truceless War Scenarios available for download on GMT's site and in the first expansion.
 
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