Recommend
6 
 Thumb up
 Hide
18 Posts

Wargames» Forums » General

Subject: Military Symbology Question rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: wargames [+] [View All]
Andrew Prizzi
United States
West Newton
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Avatar
Ok, as wargamers we are all very familiar with NATO symbology (x in a box for infantry, little oval in a box for armor, etc). Well, while I was looking at the game Objective: Moscow here on BGG, the thought occured to me "What symbols did the Soviets use?"

So I put it to you my fellow geeks-

Does anybody know what military symbols the Soviets had on their map boards?

What about after the cold war? Do non-NATO members (Russia, China, India, etc) use NATO sybology or something else?

I'd never really thought about this before, but I think it makes an interesting question. It could also be used to add some neat chrome to a wargame- if the Soviets used different symbols you could use their symbols for the Soviet units in a game for example.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nick West
Scotland
Edinburgh
Midlothian
flag msg tools
"Only two things are infinite; the universe and human stupidity....
badge
....and I'm not certain about the universe." Albert Einstein
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I don't know myself but why not ask Tom Mouat at http://www.mapsymbs.com/index.html - he has an email feedback facility on his great freeware website.

It's a great resource much loved by the UK wargaming collective, Wargame Developments.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Prizzi
United States
West Newton
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Avatar
Thanks, I shot Tom an email.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nick West
Scotland
Edinburgh
Midlothian
flag msg tools
"Only two things are infinite; the universe and human stupidity....
badge
....and I'm not certain about the universe." Albert Einstein
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I don't know myself but why not ask Tom Mouat at http://www.mapsymbs.com/index.html - he has an email feedback facility on his great freeware website.

It's a great resource much loved by the UK wargaming collective, Wargame Developments.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
shumyum
United States
flag msg tools
badge
♒♒♒♒♎♒♒♒♒ sloooowly sinking
Avatar
This site is the best I could find so far. It's in Russian! I don't have time to do a translation right now...

http://www.armor.kiev.ua/army/hist/takznaki.shtml (see the bottom)
http://www.armor.kiev.ua/army/hist/takznaki-2.shtml

Edit: Oops, I forgot to mention that I got those sites from this discussion (which might also be helpful):

http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44216
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Prizzi
United States
West Newton
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Avatar
Cool. A lot of them look to be the same as some NATO tactical symbols- I see machine guns, rockets, battle positions and others. Of course I don't read Russian so what looks like a heavy machinegun to me may actually be an airborne regiment
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Antigonus Monophthalmus
United States
Maryland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
prizziap wrote:
Of course I don't read Russian so what looks like a heavy machinegun to me may actually be an airborne regiment


Those crafty commies always try to mix us up!

My friend speaks Russian, if we don't find anything better later into the day I'll try and get him to summarize for us.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bob Mosdal
United States
Hanover
New Hampshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The game "Streets of Stalingrad 3rd ed." http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/12055 uses the contemporary military symbols for both the Germans and the Russians. On the one hand, it does add something to the historical chrome, on the other hand, there is some kvetching by wargamers that don't want to learn another set of symbols (or two).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Geoff Bohrer
United States
Hereford
Arizona
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
shumyum wrote:
This site is the best I could find so far. It's in Russian! I don't have time to do a translation right now...

http://www.armor.kiev.ua/army/hist/takznaki.shtml (see the bottom)
http://www.armor.kiev.ua/army/hist/takznaki-2.shtml



When I was an Army interrogator, these look like the ones we were taught (enough of to recognize, anyway). Somewhere I've got the manual, bu it's too much trouble to dig out...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
June Hwang Wah
Singapore
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
On a separate note, can anyone point me in the correct direction for a good resource on WWII German military symbolgy? Thanks.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nick Richardson
United States
Staten Island
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
grognard wrote:
On a separate note, can anyone point me in the correct direction for a good resource on WWII German military symbolgy? Thanks.


For The Devil's Cauldron we're using "Handbook of WWII German Military Symbols & Abbreviations 1943-45" by Terrence Booth. It's available on Amazon for less than $20.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Phillip Heaton
United States
Springfield
Virginia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I always thought that Russians used NATO symbols, but invented them first.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rob Rob
United States
Tampa
Florida
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
prizziap wrote:
Cool. A lot of them look to be the same as some NATO tactical symbols- I see machine guns, rockets, battle positions and others. Of course I don't read Russian so what looks like a heavy machinegun to me may actually be an airborne regiment


I agree, according to the written descriptions they do seem to follow the NATO symbology. About 2/3 down is something really scary describing a minefield symbol - "Ядерная мина противника с указанием мощности заряда, глубины заложения и времени обнаружения" roughly translated as "Enemy Nuclear Mine". I don't know what bothered me most, that we would just leave nuclear mines laying about or that they were so common the Russians had a symbol to describe them!
zombie
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Wesley
Nepal
Aberdeen
Washington
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mb
Here's one of the earliest "games" to utilize the German symbology of theirs within that: Rommel: The War for North Africa and this is what those looked as:

From their close co-operations with the "Western Allies", then it would certainly make sense to have everyone upon the "same page" for planning and the like. There were bound to become plenty of NEW 'Units' that were created later on, and of which comprised entirely unforeseen types as well, such as those "Nuclear Mines"!
surprise
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Prizzi
United States
West Newton
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Avatar
Ok, I got a very helpful reply back from Tom in the UK. Here's the link he sent:

http://www.mapsymbs.com/sms.jpg

Some very interesting stuff...

1) Some symbols are the same or very similar to NATO symbols, but others look very similar but denote completely different items
-What looks like a missle to me is actually an APC
-What looks like machine guns is a company or a platoon

2) The Soviets used the same color scheme in reverse- Red for the friendlies, bad for hostiles. So if you walked into the War Room in Moscow or DC the mapboards would have all the units in the same colors! Pretty neat. That would change the definition of Blue on Blue fire a bit though....


 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pål Woje
Norway
Bodø
Nordland
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
grognard wrote:
On a separate note, can anyone point me in the correct direction for a good resource on WWII German military symbolgy? Thanks.


Check out http://niehorster.orbat.com/011_germany/__ge_index.htm
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
June Hwang Wah
Singapore
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Great resource. Thanks!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.