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Subject: Questions on the Cards rss

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John Weber
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Thanks to everyone who has posted the English descriptions and cards here in the last few days. That, along with the English rules that have been posted, has helped me begin to see why this game has been highly touted as one of the best from this year's Essen. I have a few questions about some of the various cards used in the game:

1. Which of the two "Advantage" cards are the ones that are set aside always for the last turn (turn 6)?

2. What are the costs (in workers) associated with each of the 9 building cards you can select in the first phase of every turn?

3. What are the costs associated with each of the 24 Craftsmen cards?

Thanks in advance.

 
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Werner Bär
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John Weber wrote:
1. Which of the two "Advantage" cards are the ones that are set aside always for the last turn (turn 6)?

The ones with a round window in the upper corners.

Quote:
2. What are the costs (in workers) associated with each of the 9 building cards you can select in the first phase of every turn?

The number is on a worker symbol in the top-left corner of the card.

Quote:
3. What are the costs associated with each of the 24 Craftsmen cards?

The number is written on a coin symbol in the top-left corner of the card.

 
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John Weber
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Sorry, Werner, that wasn't what I was asking --- since I don't own a copy of the game and probably won't see one in the USA (an English edition) for several months, what I was asking is which of the cards fall in each category -- i.e. which of the two advantage cards are always present of the last turn (substantively what do they say) -- and same for the specific cost of each of the other types of cards. I am basing my question on information posted here at BGG and in the English guide to the game at BSW, which is of course made even more difficult by the fact that the English files for using the game there don't seem to work.

I would like to try and understand this game but it's really hard to come to grips with it even with the English rules and additional files that have been posted when several pieces of information are missing.
 
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Werner Bär
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John Weber wrote:
I would like to try and understand this game but it's really hard to come to grips with it even with the English rules and additional files that have been posted when several pieces of information are missing.

But you don't need the details of every card to understand the game.
I've played it around 10 time (online + face to face), and i don't recall all the details ... they are not that important.

The advantage cards for the last rounds are the ones that give 1 metal / 1 wood + 1 stone. Many of the other advantage cards would be useless in the last rounds, since they would only affect future rounds.

The raw material cards need 2 - 10 workers; more material needs more workers, and more valuable ressouces need more. So you'll use one big card or two small cards per round - if you get them.

The craftsmen cost 2-10 gold, i think. Early craftsmen are less good and quite cheap, late craftsmen are valuable and want more gold. The upper price limit of 10 is good to know before the last round. Aside from that, the exact prices aren't important.
 
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Mark Noll
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Sounds like you want a card manifest. I'm the same way, I like to see all the elements of a game to help give me the big picture of what will be available.

John Weber wrote:
1. Which of the two "Advantage" cards are the ones that are set aside always for the last turn (turn 6)?

As Werbaer mentioned, they are "Receive 1 metal" and "Receive 1 wood + 1 stone".

John Weber wrote:
2. What are the costs (in workers) associated with each of the 9 building cards you can select in the first phase of every turn?

There are 3 of each building material card, 1 each that produce 2, 3, or 4 resources. The workers needed are:
Sand: 2, 4, 7
Wood: 3, 6, 9
Stone: 5, 8, 10
So it takes 4 workers to get 3 Sand, 3 workers to get 2 wood, 10 workers to get 4 stone, etc.

John Weber wrote:
3. What are the costs associated with each of the 24 Craftsmen cards?

I'm was surprised to see this wasn't on the BSW help page. I just played a game and wrote them down.

Round 1
Maurer (Bricklayer) 5
Mörtelmischer (Mortar Mixer) 4
Schreiner (Carpenter) 3
Werkzeugmacher (Tool Maker) 2
Round 2
Maurer (Bricklayer) 4
Statiker (Stress Analyst) 6
Töpfer (Potter) 5
Zimmermann (Finish Joiner) 3
Round 3
Bildhauer (Sculpter) 6
Maurer (Bricklayer) 4
Töpfer (Potter) 7
Zimmermann (Finish Joiner) 5
Round 4
Bildhauer (Sculpter) 7
Glasbläser (Glass Blower) 8
Maurer (Bricklayer) 5
Zimmermann (Finish Joiner) 6
Round 5
Bildhauer (Sculpter) 8
Glasbläser (Glass Blower) 9
Goldschmied (Gold Smith) 7
Zimmermann (Finish Joiner) 6
Round 6
Bildhauer (Sculpter) 8
Glockengießer (Clock Maker) 10
Goldschmied (Gold Smith) 7
Orgelbauer (Organ Maker) 9

I left them in alphabetical order based on the German name to match the BSW Help page, but as you can see, the prices are 2-5 in the first round, and then increase by 1 each round.

I hope this is helpful!
 
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John Weber
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Thanks, today I actually watched a game on BSW and actually picked up the same information.

But a couple of questions about the BSW interface.

There is I believe one of the advantage cards that says the same thing in German ("In beliegiger Runde") with different illustrations. Which card is which?

Also, the English tutorial that is posted for BSW users appears to have a couple of untranslated German paragraphs in there. Tried to post something on this at the BSW forum, but since the posting instructions there are in German too, I got confused and gave up.

Hope someone picks up this thread and can have the remaining portions (I think there are like four paragraphs in all) translated to help us English speaking persons learn the game.
 
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Mark Noll
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There are 3 Advantage cards that start "In beliebiger runde" which means in the round of your choice. There should be more text available on the card to help differentiate them. You've probably seen this guide which I keep open as I play: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/130927
If you can't see any text beyond that intro, then maybe there's a screen-size or font issue that needs to be resolved. I've always been able to see all the text on the cards.

As for the German text on the BSW help page, I know kilt46 has worked on it but there is something broken on the server preventing all the text from getting translated. He's aware of it as are the BSW people and it will hopefully be fixed soon.
 
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John Weber
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Thanks for the reply. On my screen, the German text on those cards is the same -- but keep in mind I'm just observing, don't know if I would get more info if I clicked on them if I was playing the game. There do appear to be different symbols displayed on the cards, so understanding what they represent would be helpful.

Had a question about the chart and the card manifest. It's for the Toolmaker and the Stress Analyst. The chart has numbers in parens. So I guess the question is, what do these two Craftsemn do, do you have to pay a resource for the Tool Maker or does it let you collect resource or trade one for gold or what? Stress Analyst, it just looks like one VP per turn or am I missing something?
 
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Mark Noll
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I just uploaded an Advantage card manifest with pictures and descriptions in both English and German. Shoot me some Geek mail if anyone wants a copy before it appears here.

With the Stress Analyst, you simply earn 1 VP per round -- you don't have to provide any resources to make him work. For the Toolmaker, you earn 2 gold if you have at least one metal resource. You do not trade in the metal for the 2 gold -- that would be a very bad trade.

In case you see it, there's an error on the BSW page for the round 5 Gold Smith -- it shows 3 metal, but that should be 3 gold for 1 VP up to 6 times. The round 6 Gold Smith is correct.
 
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John Weber
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Thanks, the pictures should help figure out the cards. Played for the first time on BSW but still couldn't figure out some of the stuff -- such as how to play one of those hold until later Advantage cards. They are displayed on the same screen with your Craftsmen, but I never could figure out what to do to play one of them, and couldn't find it on the guide to the game for English speaking players, either (the one that still has the four paragraphs or so of German text in it). Any additional help would be appreciated.
 
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Werner Bär
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John Weber wrote:
Played for the first time on BSW but still couldn't figure out some of the stuff -- such as how to play one of those hold until later Advantage cards.

In the corresponding phase, you get a dialog asking whether you want to use the card.

There is one exception: If you own the card which allows you to place a master builder for free, and you place one while you don't have enough money to do so, the implementation uses the card without asking for confirmation.
 
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John Weber
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Thanks, Werner but keep in mind I don't speak German so I don't know which button to push when. I find it annoying the Advantage cards are in the same popup window as the Craftsmen -- maybe there's a good reason for that, but it's something that has me confused at this point; I don't see an explanation in the English how to play on BSW Guide that tells me specifically how to implement a play once then discard Advantage card, and frankly your answer doesn't help me out much either.
 
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John Weber wrote:
I find it annoying the Advantage cards are in the same popup window as the Craftsmen -- maybe there's a good reason for that,

That's just one window that shows all of your items - not only the craftsmen, but also the ressources, the money, and the advantage cards.

You use this window when you have to give up a craftsman, or when you are exchanging ressource cubes (and maybe money) for victory points (and maybe for money).
You don't use this window to play the advantage cards. They have their own (usually yes/no) dialog for using them.

For example, assume you have the card that grants you immunity from taxes once ("in beliebiger Runde Steuerfreiheit"). After the tax roll is made (and unless you are on the kings court), a little dialog pops up asking: "Steuerfreiheit einsetzen?" (use tax immunity) with "ja/nein" (yes/no) buttons.

The same goes for the advantage card that allows you to place a master builder without paying the money. If you have this card and place a master builder, you are asked in a little pop-up dialog whether you want to use this card. Exceptions are if you don't have to pay for the master builder (cost has been fallen to 0), in which case you don't need the card; or when you place a master builder without having enough money, in which case the card is used without extra confirmation.
 
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John Weber
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OK, Werner specific example, I am pretty sure there is an Advantage card that lets you look at the Event card in advance. Specifically, when during the game would you use it and how would you implement it playing on the BSW implementation of the game?
 
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John Weber wrote:
OK, Werner specific example, I am pretty sure there is an Advantage card that lets you look at the Event card in advance. Specifically, when during the game would you use it and how would you implement it playing on the BSW implementation of the game?

That's not a single use card, but a permanent card. So you don't need to be asked when to use it.

And the BSW implementation is very simple: In the upper right corner, there's an area in which the event text is written when the event takes place in phase 3. If you own that advantage card, the event text is there from the beginning of the round.
 
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Moisés Solé
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Are those numbers right? Sounds weird, Maurer going down from 5 to 4 before raising again on round 4... The rest seem logical, well both Goldsmiths are worth 7... I guess they're right, since there's been no post saying otherwise. It just looks weird, Round 1 Maurer is quite the ripoff...
 
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