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Subject: Negative maximum hand size for corp? rss

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I am aware that a negative max hand size for the runner means a flatline, but would getting the corp to a negative max hand size do anything different than being a zero max hand size?
 
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Nova Cat
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At the end of the corp's turn, he must discard down to his maximum hand size. If this number is negative, the task is impossible, so he does as much as he can, and ignores the rest. So, he will discard down to a hand of zero cards.

No, there are no special rules for a Corp that has a negative hand size.
 
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Evan
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The way I've been playing it, the Corp has to draw negative cards to make up the difference. ...Y'know, like Eli -1.0 and Necrotic Labor.
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Scott Forster
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kobold47 wrote:
The way I've been playing it, the Corp has to draw negative cards to make up the difference. ...Y'know, like Eli -1.0 and Necrotic Labor.


Necrotic Labor
Cost: 4
Weyland (influence 4)
Operation
Gain 1 click for each runner you have flatlined today.

It's crap in the first round or two, but wait until the final rounds, and this thing is pure gold!
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How about this generalization to negative hand sizes:

Drawing a card for any reason results in the following:
1. Hand size increases by 1.
2. If hand size is >0, draw an actual card.
 
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Nova Cat
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rbelikov wrote:
How about this generalization to negative hand sizes:

Drawing a card for any reason results in the following:
1. Hand size increases by 1.
2. If hand size is >0, draw an actual card.

Even as a house rule, that doesn't actually work.
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Brodie
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Heisenberg wrote:
I am aware that a negative max hand size for the runner means a flatline, but would getting the corp to a negative max hand size do anything different than being a zero max hand size?


Yes. A Corp with a maximum hand size of -1 cannot trigger Vigil, since it's impossible to have -1 cards in hand.
 
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Novacat wrote:
rbelikov wrote:
How about this generalization to negative hand sizes:

Drawing a card for any reason results in the following:
1. Hand size increases by 1.
2. If hand size is >0, draw an actual card.

Even as a house rule, that doesn't actually work.


Do you mean it does not work mechanically, or breaks the balance somehow?

Mechanically it should work. Basically negative hand size is a debt of card draw actions: you need to execute "blank" draw actions to bring your hand size to 0 before a draw action actually draws cards. Analogous to a negative bank account balance, where depositing a dollar does not give you any actual value until the balance is 0.
 
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Susan F.
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But allowing the corp to not draw from their deck would mess up the "corp loses when their deck runs out" win condition, wouldn't it?
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Nova Cat
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rbelikov wrote:
Novacat wrote:
rbelikov wrote:
How about this generalization to negative hand sizes:

Drawing a card for any reason results in the following:
1. Hand size increases by 1.
2. If hand size is >0, draw an actual card.

Even as a house rule, that doesn't actually work.


Do you mean it does not work mechanically, or breaks the balance somehow?

Mechanically it should work. Basically negative hand size is a debt of card draw actions: you need to execute "blank" draw actions to bring your hand size to 0 before a draw action actually draws cards. Analogous to a negative bank account balance, where depositing a dollar does not give you any actual value until the balance is 0.

It doesn't work mechanically. Let's say the runner has Itinerant Protesters out, reducing the Corp's maximum hand size to -2. The corp's turn begins, and he gets his corp draw. With your house rule, that would raise his maximum hand size to -1. Let's say he doesn't draw any more cards that turn. His next corp draw brings him to 0. Then, he draws a current of his own and plays it. Then what's his maximum hand size? The effect that was reducing his maximum hand size by 7 is gone, and 0+7 means his maximum hand size actually just went up.
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Novacat wrote:
It doesn't work mechanically. Let's say the runner has Itinerant Protesters out, reducing the Corp's maximum hand size to -2. The corp's turn begins, and he gets his corp draw. With your house rule, that would raise his maximum hand size to -1. Let's say he doesn't draw any more cards that turn. His next corp draw brings him to 0. Then, he draws a current of his own and plays it. Then what's his maximum hand size? The effect that was reducing his maximum hand size by 7 is gone, and 0+7 means his maximum hand size actually just went up.


"maximum hand size" and "hand size" are different things, sorry for not clarifying that.

In your situation, maximum hand size is always -2. Hand size can be -2, -1, 0, 1, depending on number of draw actions, and always reduced to -2 when the corp needs to discard. (The special draw at turn start can be an exception and an actual draw, or not.)

It's a silly house rule, just trying to logically generalize what negative hand sizes would mean, nothing more!
 
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Nova Cat
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That could easily lead to a situation where the corp is unable (or unwilling) to draw cards, and allows the game to stalemate.
 
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Christian Bou Farhat
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Sorry guys... i am stilla newbie to this game...but where did you find the card Necrotic Labor ?
 
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Andrew Keddie
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christizzz wrote:
Sorry guys... i am stilla newbie to this game...but where did you find the card Necrotic Labor ?


It's a joke card, it doesn't exist
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James Wood
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As a Weyland player, I find myself wanting the card Necrotic Labour...

V.


PS - and Weyland cufflinks.
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