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Dead of Winter: A Crossroads Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: winning clarifications rss

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James A
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If we complete the main objective but not A single person completes their personal objective, do we still win as a colony or is that considered 100% losing the game entirely? Because technically we beat the main objective. I'm just iffy on how winning works. We win as a colony but some do better than others if they complete their secret objective? Just trying to interpret the rule book standing on winning. Is there even winning as a group or are their only individual winners based on how many complete personal objectives? Because the secret objectives are personal desires and whatnot but not necessary to survival of the colony persay.
 
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David Peck
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Technically? You all lost.
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Christian K
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It is a good question. The rules state that you win if you complete the main objective and your personal one. Otherwise, you lose.

The main source of controversy around the game is that it does not rate which is better of the following two scenarios

a) the main objective is won but you didn't win your personal one
b) the main objective is lost

Lost people will try to achieve a over b and some prefer b over a, which is fine. It is nice to be on the same page within a group, though. It can be very frustration for some people who prefer a over b (which it sounds like you do) to have their main objective sabotaged by someone who prefers b over a. Some people have even mentioned that they are not willing to play with players who prefer b over a again.
 
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Michael Salceda
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While it is labeled as a cooperative game, the "cooperative" part only goes so far as to making sure the main objective is completed. Past that, it's a free-for-all. The real winner(s) are those who are able to balance the needs of the colony and their own personal needs which is what I like about this game. So, as
David Peck
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said, you technically all lost because none of you placed enough precedence on your personal secret objectives. Sorry. :-p
 
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chum chumbler
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Unfortunately you all lost. Your cooperative objective is kind of a "gateway" to your selfish objective. You have to win cooperatively to fully accomplish your selfish objective, but the selfish objective is your real task.

In the situation you described above you all should have been trying to buy time so you could finish your selfish objective. This would of course give any traitors more time to screw with you, but you might as well give him the chance since you still need time to finish your objective anyway.

Sometimes you will find fellow loyal survivors will try to end the game quickly after they achieve their goals and at that point it's your job to try to slow the end until you can finish your objective. Some will try to bomb the game entirely at that point, but I find that a bit unsporting personally.
 
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James A
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Ok I think it makes more sense to me that to be a winner,u must complete your card. Because we had two of the four of us complete our cards by the end and I was like, "well I think we win as a colony because we beat the objective but you two did better for completing your own card." But it felt weird and unsatisfactory to all win but have better winners than others. The game was quite unclear I think because I felt it could be interpreted different.
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Jonathon Neff
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I think it plays a little better looking at it more as a competitive game. Everyone has their own objective, and you want to balance that out with winning the main objective, so there is a lot of paranoia as to ok, who's lying about what they have in their hand, why isn't this person contributing food, why does this person keep getting extra survivors we can't feed. So I see it as.. who can get away with contributing just enough to still win their goal, but still not make the game fail. In this colony, everyone is looking over their shoulder, there's not a lot of trust, and you have your own needs. Sure, you complete the main objective, we got through this one problem, but if you fail your secret objective, your group as a whole are not satisfied. They don't win because they couldn't do what they set out to do.

I don't see completing the main objective as winning as a colony, I see it as not failing, but in order to win, you need your secret objective. Yeah, you completed the level, but you forgot to get the three keys to complete that level so you still fail.
 
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Rood Bird
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I'm sorry but you all lost. Despite what other posters have written above, when it comes to winning conditions the rule book does not talk about main objectives, colony objectives or whatever you like to call achieving the main objective.

rulebook page 14 wrote:

When the game ends for any reason, if a player has completed his secret objective he wins. If he has not, he loses. Some players may win in a game that other players lost; there can be multiple winners. It is also possible for everyone to lose if no one has completed his secret objective when the game ends.


Each player's secret objective is the main objective plus something unique to himself. (Not including a betrayer of course!devil) Completing the main objective on its own is not a win condition for any player.

If you choose to count this as a group win then that's up to you. However according to the rules you all lost.


Hope this helps,

RB
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James A
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Ok looking at the rulebook description again, this makes perfect sense. I'm just so used to games like Legendary where it's Co op and u choose from a main objective to complete and work towards to win that with dead of winter, it's so different than the usual co-op/main objective type game!
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David Williams
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You all lost. But you came closer to winning than if you had failed the main objective and also failed to complete your personal objective.

A bit like if I lose a squash game 9-7, I feel better about it than if I lose 9-0. I lost the game either way, but it's a better feeling, and usually more satisfying, to have come close. Usually... and for most people.
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Rood Bird
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Orion3T wrote:

A bit like if I lose a squash game 9-7, I feel better about it than if I lose 9-0. I lost the game either way, but it's a better feeling, and usually more satisfying, to have come close. Usually... and for most people.


Good point. Well made. I agree with you.

Although, weirdly due to having to win the right to serve in squash before scoring any points I've played games which felt a lot closer and more satisfying that ended 9-0 than 9-7

RB
 
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David Williams
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roodbird wrote:
Orion3T wrote:

A bit like if I lose a squash game 9-7, I feel better about it than if I lose 9-0. I lost the game either way, but it's a better feeling, and usually more satisfying, to have come close. Usually... and for most people.


Good point. Well made. I agree with you.

Although, weirdly due to having to win the right to serve in squash before scoring any points I've played games which felt a lot closer and more satisfying that ended 9-0 than 9-7

RB


Very true, that can happen.

The score is not always an entirely accurate indicator of how close a game was, or how long or paced the rallies were. Perhaps it would be more indicative to use PAR scoring and say 15-13 vs 15-2. But I think it illustrates the point I was making.

However... we digress, I feel.
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Joel Carson
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Orion3T wrote:
You all lost. But you came closer to winning than if you had failed the main objective and also failed to complete your personal objective.

A bit like if I lose a squash game 9-7, I feel better about it than if I lose 9-0. I lost the game either way, but it's a better feeling, and usually more satisfying, to have come close. Usually... and for most people.


True. I assume the colony is surviving when the main objective is completed, but since no one finished their main objective everyone is miserable and broken. But.. alive.
 
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Alejandro F
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To win you must complete all the objectives listed in your card. The most of you will have the same thing as a objective, you could cooperate for that but you need all your card completed.
 
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David "Davy" Ashleydale
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I think how you feel about the situation depends on how you feel when you are playing a game like Forbidden island and you've collected all 4 of the items, but couldn't make it off the island before it sank.

If that feels better to you than not collecting any of the 4 items before the island sinks, then you probably also feel good about completing the main objective but not your own secret objective.

If you don't feel any differently about collecting 0 items than collecting 4 items before the island sinks -- you still have lost the game in either case -- then you probably won't feel good about completing the main objective but not your own secret objective.
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