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Subject: What role to games play in our society? rss

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Patrick McKeon
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Hello my fellow geeks. I am doing a term paper for my english class on the importance of games (preferably non electronic) in out society. So I would like to open the forum to everyone that would like to be included in this essay of mine. Keep in mind I can not include everyone, although I would like to. So the more information you give the more likely you will be quoted in the essay.

I would like to know a few basic thing so that I have a good demographic, name (if you feel comfortable putting it on the forum) and age are good starters. Then I can open up to any of the follow; however do not feel limited to these questions:

- What type of gamer would you consider yourself?
- Is the a particullar type of game that you prefer?
- Would you say that games aid in healthy social developement, if so how much?
- Do you think that games are making a come back, or are they in decline?
- Do you think boardgames are superior to electronic games, or are they in to different classes and therefore hard to compair?
- What makes a good game?
- What important role to games play in your life?

PLEASE do not feel limited to these questions. These were merely put out there to provoke your thought process, and I do realize many of then are very bias. I am however doing a very bias essay, so in some fashion this was intentional.

Feel free to add any questions that you like, if you think I have missed something. Please do keep in mind the subject for the essay is the title of the forum entry. Finally anyone leaving a post please focus on your own thoughs, I am not doing this so people can flame each other on expressed opinions. I will be using information gathered here for my essay.

I would like to stress I am doing this essay on boardgames and other non-electronic games. So if you would like to add about MPOG or other video games, you will have to wait for next semester....sorry!

Thanks everyone

 
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I think you are severely limiting yourself by sticking only to non-electronic gamers and in the way that you have introduced some bias into your question phrasing.

Although video games have traditionally been considered "anti-social," the huge turn in recent years towards online gaming and massively-multiplayer gaming has changed that. A site like BoardGameGeek thrives on account of its specialization; a society-wide evaluation of the role of games, however, will be weakened by such specialization. Whether we, in particular, like video games does not change the fact that society, in general, likes them and that they are, in fact, games. Either rephrase your question or allow them, I would say. If you want to study the role of games in society, it makes little sense to leave out what is far and above the largest group of gamers (at least in this country), video gamers. If you want to narrow your study to board games or board/card games, then change your prompt/title.

Further, you've introduced some of your own biases and assumptions both in the type of questions you are asking and in the way in which you word them. The question "What type of gamer are you?" will have a different set of responses for most people than for the people you associate with here on this site. Most people will either say "I don't play games," "I play video games," "I play card games with friends," or "I play board games with my family." Since you've already thrown out video gamers, I can't imagine these are the responses you're after. Ask what you want to know in as unbiased and un"assuming" a way as possible. If you want to know whether people generally prefer word games to strategy games, ask something like "Would you rather play a word game like Scrabble or a strategy game like Chess?"

More bias creeps in in the "Would you say that games aid in healthy social developement, if so how much?" question. You might as well just come out and say "Games aid in healthy social development. How much do you think they do so?," because the question leads to the answer "yes, they do" in the way you've tacked on the little thing at the end. A better question might be something like "Do games have an effect on social development?" which does not presume either answer and has an inherent "degree" requirement either way you come at it (i.e. someone might say it has a "great" "negative" effect, etc). It is important to remove any hint of your own opinions or ideas from the question or you will end up with severely skewed results (even moreso than you will from sampling the strictly board game community here and leaving out the entire video game community).

[Even this last rephrasing example is troublesome because it may introduce the idea of games being connected to social development that many people you question may never have considered; just that introduction to a new idea is prone to skew your answers {everybody forms "quick" judgments on things that are new to them, and their immediate response, usually very strong either way, is sure to be different than their natural response}. It might be better to go with a question more along the lines of "Did games play a role in your upbringing?" which doesn't hit you over the head with the wordy idea of "social development" {which may be essentially "upbringing," but won't be viewed as such by most people}, but instead allows you to make your own judgments concerning the nature of the role (if any) that games have played in your life]

Another question, "Do you think boardgames are superior to electronic games, or are they in to different classes and therefore hard to compair?," is almost a false dilemma. The answer "Electronic games are superior" or "They are equal" is not technically against the question (the answer would essentially be "No, they are not superior... blah blah blah"), but is against the natural response after reading the question (which reads like an "either/or" statement, despite the lack of the word "either"). You've phrased the question in such a way as to already have a value judgment present in the question itself, which will certainly work its way into the answers. A better question wording might be "How to board games and video games compare, or can there be no comparison?" Remove biases, leave the subject free to add his own interpretation to the question and, thus, provide the least biased answer possible.

The last question, "What important role do games play in your life?" also begs the answer like some of the other questions have. Some people may answer "They play no important role," but that's obviously against the spirit of the question and those people may either not take your survey, leave the answer blank, or put the answer they think you want to hear because of the way the question was worded. Don't assume anything if you want to end up with truly valuable research results. I'd ask something more along the lines of "Do games play an important role in your life?" Even something as simple as that is less apt to provide you with skewed answers because the question is "Do they play a role?" rather than "What is the role they play?"


You will obtain much more accurate results if you don't choose your own sample and don't allow bias into your questioning.
 
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Stew Woods
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For a theoretical/philosophical take on this question you might want to look at:

Homo Ludens by Jonannes Huizinga
Man, Play and Games by Roger Caillois
The Grasshopper: Games, Life and Utopia by Bernard Suits

You may have already - just trying to help

Stewart
 
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mckeon13 wrote:
Hello my fellow geeks. I am doing a term paper for my english class on the importance of games (preferably non electronic) in out society. So I would like to open the forum to everyone that would like to be included in this essay of mine. Keep in mind I can not include everyone, although I would like to. So the more information you give the more likely you will be quoted in the essay.

I would like to know a few basic thing so that I have a good demographic, name (if you feel comfortable putting it on the forum) and age are good starters. Then I can open up to any of the follow; however do not feel limited to these questions:

- What type of gamer would you consider yourself?
- Is the a particullar type of game that you prefer?
- Would you say that games aid in healthy social developement, if so how much?
- Do you think that games are making a come back, or are they in decline?
- Do you think boardgames are superior to electronic games, or are they in to different classes and therefore hard to compair?
- What makes a good game?
- What important role to games play in your life?

Feel free to add any questions that you like, if you think I have missed something. Please do keep in mind the subject for the essay is the title of the forum entry. Finally anyone leaving a post please focus on your own thoughs, I am not doing this so people can flame each other on expressed opinions. I will be using information gathered here for my essay.

Thanks everyone



I'm a wargamer who likes good games with combat as an element. I prefer just about any game that's not a eurogame. The lack of good theme hurts euros in my mind despite the normally well done rules. Some of my favorite games include Battlestations, Federation Commander, Arkham Horror, Fury of Dracula, Old School Avalon Hill games like Titan and Flat Top, Axis and Allies, and fun games like Grave Robbers from Outer Space, Lifeboat, and Succession.

There are all sorts of games that help in social development. First off any game requires social skills to meet new players, fit into a group, learn patience, learn to wait your turn, etc.. . Games like Apples to Apples increases vocab, games like federation commander are great in learning math skills. Axis and Allies is great at teaching geography and many games are good at teaching history.

Are games making a comeback? Depends on how you look at the industry. The market is about to flatten out on CCGs, as it can't support many more of those and stores don't want to take the risk on carrying them (magic excepted of course) Boardgames have made a big splash lately with companies emerging on the scene like Days of Wonder and Fantasy Flight. We have also seen the demise of a couple of companies like Eagle Games. As for RPGs I think we are going to see a decline in the number of RPGS produced in the next few years simply because they aren't high profit (unless you count D&D) and almost every possible genre of RPGs has been done already. So my prediction, more miniatures, less CCGs, the CCG minis market will stay about the same, perhaps some decline, but boardgames are riding a new high, with the explosion of the Eurogame market and new good American companies.

Boardgames and Electronic games are two very different games. The purpose of electronic games is almost never to socialize while boardgaming is a very social event. As electronics get better and better and lans parties lead to "holodeck" like experience maybe that will change. But I play video games when I crave a quick game, I play boardgames when I crave spending time with people.

Many people will have different views on what makes a good game. The truth is that a game just has to fill your definition of fun. For some it's all strategy, for some it's meta-game, and for others like me, it's the theme and entertainment. The more people that get "fun" out of a game, the more successful it is. I can tell you that the "good games" of the 1970's are not the "good games" of today. Companies market games with two factors in mind:

1. How quick can it be played
2. How pretty can we make the game look

These are the factors that make a good game, but rather a successful one. A flat top AH game of the 70s while in my opinion a good game would not be successful in todays market if simply re-released.

I eat, breathe, and sleep games. I work as a moderator for Avalon Hill, my day job is running a game store, I playtest for a number of companies, I'm the content manager for Knowledge Arcana Online WotC Magazine, and I'm working on my first game hoping to publish next spring. They play a big part in my life.
 
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NateStraight wrote:
I think you are severely limiting yourself by sticking only to non-electronic gamers and in the way that you have introduced some bias into your question phrasing.

Although video games have traditionally been considered "anti-social," the huge turn in recent years towards online gaming and massively-multiplayer gaming has changed that.


I would disagree. I think online gamers don't game for social benefit they game to kill and defeat other players. Even in a team format online game, socializing isn't the big draw.
 
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Quote:
I would disagree. I think online gamers don't game for social benefit they game to kill and defeat other players. Even in a team format online game, socializing isn't the big draw.


...and yet I've heard World of Warcraft described as the worlds most sophisticated chatline
 
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lokides wrote:
Quote:
I would disagree. I think online gamers don't game for social benefit they game to kill and defeat other players. Even in a team format online game, socializing isn't the big draw.


...and yet I've heard World of Warcraft described as the worlds most sophisticated chatline




So are you grading this on any social interaction or quality social interaction? Debates about my character beating your character is not really how I define social time. I find most chat rooms, not including a informative guest speaker tend to be the same ramblings of people over and over and over. Perhaps that's not your experience?
 
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Phillip Heaton
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mckeon13 wrote:
- What type of gamer would you consider yourself?
- Is the a particullar type of game that you prefer?
- Would you say that games aid in healthy social developement, if so how much?
- Do you think that games are making a come back, or are they in decline?
- Do you think boardgames are superior to electronic games, or are they in to different classes and therefore hard to compair?
- What makes a good game?
- What important role to games play in your life?


Wow! Now that you have been spanked for not knowing how to write your questions (you may have a future in partisan polling organizations) I'll try to answer your questions.

- What type of gamer would you consider yourself? Yes, would be the short answer. I play just about every type of game out there, although I haven't played much video/computer games of late.

- Is the a particular type of game that you prefer? Role-playing games have been my favorites for some time now.

- Would you say that games aid in healthy social development, if so how much? Well, they've made me the person I am today. zombie Seriously, games and sports of all types are how children learn to socialize.

- Do you think that games are making a come back, or are they in decline? A comeback, although it is more of an upturn than a come back. These things go in cycles, and we happen to be in a good one right now.

- Do you think boardgames are superior to electronic games, or are they in to different classes and therefore hard to compare? It depends on what you want out of a game. If you don't have local people you can play with, video/computer and solitaire games are your only choice. I enjoy the social aspect of gaming, plus the chance to match wits with a known quantity.

- What makes a good game? If I knew that, you all would talk about me instead of that German guy.

- What important role to games play in your life? They are my major form of recreation. Speaking of which, one of my gamer buddies just showed up, so I'll have to get back to this later.
 
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Steve Werth
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board games are an outlet for agression and competition, just like video games or playing sports/watching TV
 
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Steve Werth wrote:
board games are an outlet for agression and competition, just like video games or playing sports/watching TV


They also serve as a safe way to test ability and skill and to get social comparison feedback. It doesn't have to be about agression and competition - it can also be about increasing self-knowledge.

-MMM
 
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Quote:
board games are an outlet for agression and competition, just like video games or playing sports/watching TV


mmmm....

I don't know that the comparison is that simple.
Games operate inside a special 'magic circle' which enables us to play out deciet, competition and conflict within a 'safe' space. Watching TV is a far more sedentary experience IMHO shake

WRT social experience, talking about how my character kicked your character is also play within this space

 
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mckeon13 wrote:


- What type of gamer would you consider yourself?
- Is the a particullar type of game that you prefer?
- Would you say that games aid in healthy social developement, if so how much?
- Do you think that games are making a come back, or are they in decline?
- Do you think boardgames are superior to electronic games, or are they in to different classes and therefore hard to compair?
- What makes a good game?
- What important role to games play in your life?



So now I'll have a go at these...

What type etc.... All kinds of games interest me but without any athletic inclination I avoid sports at all costs. I'm a sedentary social player - how's that?

Particular type? Social games - solitary play experiences just don't do it for me - I'd rather read a book :-)

Social Development - Absolutely! How else might kids learn to win and lose with dignity and to understand the sense of friendly healthy competition which drives much social behaviour and the formation of culture?

Board & Electronic? really depends on the form of the electronic game. The majority are solitary exercises in instrumental reasoning that teach nothing about winning and losing. Kinda like fixing up a car or baking a cake, do this, do that, job done! More relevant maybe would be to question the difference between social and solitary play.
Electronic social games are a digitally mediated (usually realtime) form of play. (eg. Is there a difference between games played on BSW and in the flesh?) It is open to debate whether the solitary nature of most electronic playthings can even be identified as games (Despite the fact that the nomenclature has just 'stuck') In short, the comparison kinda doesn't work - it's not that simple...

What makes a good game? Good players :-)

What roles do games play? My primary hobby and my career (sorta)
 
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Patrick McKeon
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NateStraight wrote:
I think you are severely limiting yourself by sticking only to non-electronic gamers and in the way that you have introduced some bias into your question phrasing.

Although video games have traditionally been considered "anti-social," the huge turn in recent years towards online gaming and massively-multiplayer gaming has changed that. A site like BoardGameGeek thrives on account of its specialization; a society-wide evaluation of the role of games, however, will be weakened by such specialization. Whether we, in particular, like video games does not change the fact that society, in general, likes them and that they are, in fact, games. Either rephrase your question or allow them, I would say. If you want to study the role of games in society, it makes little sense to leave out what is far and above the largest group of gamers (at least in this country), video gamers. If you want to narrow your study to board games or board/card games, then change your prompt/title.

Further, you've introduced some of your own biases and assumptions both in the type of questions you are asking and in the way in which you word them. The question "What type of gamer are you?" will have a different set of responses for most people than for the people you associate with here on this site. Most people will either say "I don't play games," "I play video games," "I play card games with friends," or "I play board games with my family." Since you've already thrown out video gamers, I can't imagine these are the responses you're after. Ask what you want to know in as unbiased and un"assuming" a way as possible. If you want to know whether people generally prefer word games to strategy games, ask something like "Would you rather play a word game like Scrabble or a strategy game like Chess?"

More bias creeps in in the "Would you say that games aid in healthy social developement, if so how much?" question. You might as well just come out and say "Games aid in healthy social development. How much do you think they do so?," because the question leads to the answer "yes, they do" in the way you've tacked on the little thing at the end. A better question might be something like "Do games have an effect on social development?" which does not presume either answer and has an inherent "degree" requirement either way you come at it (i.e. someone might say it has a "great" "negative" effect, etc). It is important to remove any hint of your own opinions or ideas from the question or you will end up with severely skewed results (even moreso than you will from sampling the strictly board game community here and leaving out the entire video game community).

[Even this last rephrasing example is troublesome because it may introduce the idea of games being connected to social development that many people you question may never have considered; just that introduction to a new idea is prone to skew your answers {everybody forms "quick" judgments on things that are new to them, and their immediate response, usually very strong either way, is sure to be different than their natural response}. It might be better to go with a question more along the lines of "Did games play a role in your upbringing?" which doesn't hit you over the head with the wordy idea of "social development" {which may be essentially "upbringing," but won't be viewed as such by most people}, but instead allows you to make your own judgments concerning the nature of the role (if any) that games have played in your life]

Another question, "Do you think boardgames are superior to electronic games, or are they in to different classes and therefore hard to compair?," is almost a false dilemma. The answer "Electronic games are superior" or "They are equal" is not technically against the question (the answer would essentially be "No, they are not superior... blah blah blah"), but is against the natural response after reading the question (which reads like an "either/or" statement, despite the lack of the word "either"). You've phrased the question in such a way as to already have a value judgment present in the question itself, which will certainly work its way into the answers. A better question wording might be "How to board games and video games compare, or can there be no comparison?" Remove biases, leave the subject free to add his own interpretation to the question and, thus, provide the least biased answer possible.

The last question, "What important role do games play in your life?" also begs the answer like some of the other questions have. Some people may answer "They play no important role," but that's obviously against the spirit of the question and those people may either not take your survey, leave the answer blank, or put the answer they think you want to hear because of the way the question was worded. Don't assume anything if you want to end up with truly valuable research results. I'd ask something more along the lines of "Do games play an important role in your life?" Even something as simple as that is less apt to provide you with skewed answers because the question is "Do they play a role?" rather than "What is the role they play?"


You will obtain much more accurate results if you don't choose your own sample and don't allow bias into your questioning.


First you waste space with you long winded and shrewd disection of my questions. They were merely sample questions to get people think. I have not refined the questions to be unbias. And frankly I want them to be bias, very bias. I am writting an essay for why games ARE important to society. While I value why people may think they are a waste of time (why they would be on this website is beyond me), that is not the information I am looking. I am only looking to talk about one side of the coin.

But thanks for you info just the same. OH, and you must have missed the part about flaming, cause that is all you have done to my forum topic is flame it.
 
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mckeon13 wrote:
OH, and you must have missed the part about flaming, cause that is all you have done to my forum topic is flame it.


To be fair I don't think that's what Nate was doing at all - I think he was just trying to help you in writing a more effective essay by structuring your questions in a more considered way. Of course, we here don't know the context for the assignment but it seems that Nate was just suggesting that your research methods were a little askew. Be nice :-)
 
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Greg Jones
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type of gamer

Avid, but not addicted.

type of games

Euro games.

social development

When you learn to play games, you learn to play by the rules and not to cheat. That's a pretty important social lesson.

Any time people get together and actively participate in something, there are social interactions outside the sphere of the activity itself, which can foster good social development.

On the downside, most games are competitive, zero-sum activities. If you can make your opponent lose points, that can be as valid a strategy as gaining points yourself. That's not true in real life and could encourage bad social behavior. It's important for gamers to isolate this attitude from the real world.

On the other hand, within a competitive, zero-sum game, if there are more than two players, there can be moments of cooperation between some of the players.

There are a lot of benefits of gaming for personal development, which I wouldn't exactly equate with social development, e.g., planning ahead, coping with unexpected events, dealing with failure (being a good loser).

Being a good winner is a social skill, and applicable in real life too. E.g., don't celebrate your promotion too gloriously in front of the guy who was passed over for it; don't brag about your fancy car with friends who make less money than you.

trend

I think board games are neither declining nor increasing in popularity. I like to think they could increase in popularity if the word got out about Euro games. I think Euro games could do for board games what has been happening with video games; that is, adults are playing them whereas previously only children did. Most mass-market games (Monopoly, Battleship, Connect-Four) are not enough of a mental challenge for adults. Occasionally, adults will play them when they can't think of anything better to do with a group of people. Then they have such an unsatisfying experience they don't play again for a long time. When adults do play games seriously, they are usually public domain games that do require more thought, such as Chess and Bridge. I think Euro games can be compared to these games, yet would provide more variety than the short list of high-quality public-domain games. However, I recognize that a lot of the population would find Euro games obscure.

vs. video games

Yes, board games are superior, if only because of variety. There are a few categories that most video games fit into, and within each category there isn't a whole lot substantially different from one game to another. The categories are these: sports (including car racing), first-person shooter, martial-arts, RPG, platformer. Platformer games have some variety in terms of the different contraptions you can interact with. In the old days, I think variety in video games was better. I can think of unique games like Pac-Man, Break-Out, Bomberman, Tetris, A Boy and His Blob, Solar Jetman. I think that's because in the old days, there wasn't enough memory to hold a lot of levels and graphics, so there wasn't a lot of time spent by the developers on such things. More time was spent on the basic substance of the game. The same could be said of board games. You can't fit as much in a cardboard box as on a silicon chip.

what makes a good game

That's largely up to opinion. Different people will have different opinions about how much luck should be involved, what should be the weight, what should be the playing time. Some people think theme is good, others don't care. I don't think there are many who think too much theme makes a good game bad; they can just ignore the theme and look at the underlying game if they feel that way.

I think everyone will agree that replayability is good. A variable setup can help improve replayability.

Another thing I think almost everyone will agree is good is depth. Depth aids replayability. You can play one time, and learn one strategy. Then the next time, you can use the advantages gained from applying that strategy as resources for a new strategy on top of that. The deeper a game is, the more times you can play it and still be learning to get better. Learning is a large part of what makes a game fun.

role of games in my life

Games are just a fun, enjoyable thing to do with my time. They are an end unto themselves. I suppose secondarily they contribute to my social life, but that isn't really part of what motivates me to play them.
 
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Sinister wrote:
So are you grading this on any social interaction or quality social interaction? Debates about my character beating your character is not really how I define social time. I find most chat rooms, not including a informative guest speaker tend to be the same ramblings of people over and over and over. Perhaps that's not your experience?


I don't know about WoW, but I do know that MUD's (textbased online games similar to WoW) tend to lead to more social interaction. In my own case, as a longterm player on the Discworld MUD, I moved countries, made lots of new friends and found two girlfriends via the MUD. Also, the Discworld MUD players organise regular off-line meetings (as I'm writing this I'm in Glasgow awaiting others to arrive for such a meet) which in turn lead to other events, new relationships being formed, etc. etc.

So it really depends on the online game you're playing. From all I hear, WoW is built towards spending more, more, MORE time online, and thus having less social interaction. MUD's on the other hand tend to stimulate social interaction offline.
 
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mckeon13 wrote:
First you waste space with you long winded and shrewd disection of my questions. They were merely sample questions to get people think. I have not refined the questions to be unbias. And frankly I want them to be bias, very bias. I am writting an essay for why games ARE important to society. While I value why people may think they are a waste of time (why they would be on this website is beyond me), that is not the information I am looking. I am only looking to talk about one side of the coin.

But thanks for you info just the same. OH, and you must have missed the part about flaming, cause that is all you have done to my forum topic is flame it.


Dude, that wasn't flaming. I'm just trying to help. You're totally welcome to disregard my advice. It just seems, from your first post, that this was supposed to be some kind of academic pursuit (it wasn't clear at what level, but I'm assuming college/university), and most academians would want more sophisticated / refined research methods (though, this isn't a research class, but an english [and, I'm assuming, persuasive writing] course). Feel free to disregard my post if it's not helpful to you, but please don't think that I wasn't trying to be helpful.

-Nate
 
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Marshall Miller
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- What type of gamer would you consider yourself?
Social gamer (i.e. I game because it facilitates and sets a framework for social interaction)
- Is there a particular type of game that you prefer?I like medium weight eurogames that play with 2-4 people.
- Would you say that games aid in healthy social development, if so how much?I think games definitely aid in healthy social development. As far as children (and some adults) they teach people to interact in a positive and polite way in spite of conflict. They also promote face-to-face interaction which seems to be on the decline due to recent technology. Games also lubricate social interaction by providing a frame work as well as something constructive to do with your hands while you socialize. I also think that games are particularly advantageous to males. A personal observation amongst people I know is that males tend to be less emotionally open than females but when they are engaged in a game they become more open. I speculate that this is because games (a) distract players from social comparison and fear of judgment (b) reduce direct eye contact and (c) promote bonding and feelings of inclusion.
- Do you think that games are making a come back, or are they in decline?I think that games are definitely making a comeback! Looking at the number of new games being produced over recent years as well as the quality of said games should support a thesis of incline.
- Do you think board games are superior to electronic games, or are they in to different classes and therefore hard to compare?
I think board games are superior in some ways. Video games do more accurately replicate the real world and so electronic game experiences generalize to the real world better than board games. However, the negative content in many video games could make this a disadvantage. Board games promote more real world interactions though which I believe to be more important to developing social skills that incorporate non-verbal and non-declarative communication. Lastly, I think that they develop different skills. Video games use more intuitive types of learning because players do not know the rules, this puts players in a type of virtual Skinner box where they must explore their game environment and develop hypothesis about the rules that govern the game. Board games, however, give you the rules up front and promote a more logic-based type of learning. Board games may therefore equip players with skills that are highly emphasized in academia.
- What makes a good game?
Good games, and stories for that matter, are based on having more options available than actions available. Good games are about creatively overcoming limitations. Visually, good games have good art work that possesses a timeless quality and is resistant to changing material trends and fads (e.g. wood not plastic). Good games also have random elements that make each game unique (e.g. variable setup, differing player powers, etc.) Lastly, good games have rules that are easy enough to be grasped by an eight year old but with enough room for clever tactics and strategy that challenge players of any age.
- What important role to games play in your life?Games give me a hobby that incorporates others.
 
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Games are nothing more or less than entertainment.

Why I prefer playing boardgames to other forms of recreation:

They are active (I'm hyper).
And I can play them without breaking a sweat (I'm lazy).
They are comparitively cheap (I'm cheap).
 
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Patrick McKeon
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NateStraight wrote:


Dude, that wasn't flaming. I'm just trying to help. You're totally welcome to disregard my advice. It just seems, from your first post, that this was supposed to be some kind of academic pursuit (it wasn't clear at what level, but I'm assuming college/university), and most academians would want more sophisticated / refined research methods (though, this isn't a research class, but an english [and, I'm assuming, persuasive writing] course). Feel free to disregard my post if it's not helpful to you, but please don't think that I wasn't trying to be helpful.

-Nate


My apology. Yes this is for a persuasive piece, and no it is not a research paper. This is a class (college) dealing with only writing. The instructor is more focused on good writting, proper MLA, well express ideas, and quotes then with the purity of the research done. And the questions that I put down were only to get people the start thinking about the topic. Being that I am a gamer my questions will be bias, since I think games are very important. However you should have also read that you can feel free to ask/answer question that you come up with yourself. This is an on the fly assignment, and I do not have the time to do full blown research on the subject.
 
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Frank McNally
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Much as I enjoy games their improvement of social skills is probaly not a high point. For children and immature adults they teach lessons in patience and fairness (these should already be well understood by adults). For adults games can serve as crutch to prop up weak social skills. Though many gamers I know are nice people (some could even be labeled "cool"), many or most are not the smoothest, most social people I know (I include myself in the former less than smooth category). Though I can function well as a professional at work and can get along in social situations, my small talk skills are weak and not likley to be improved by gaming (which allows me to be social in ways which would not work well in more typical settings, e.g. a dinner party).

So, as long as you restrict your claim of socialization by games to the level of what one learns in kindergarten you have a point. Beyond that the point weakens.

Also- great point above about the level of game play in videogames back in the day. Graphics really hurt video game play though things seem to be getting better. Back in the 80s when graphics were getting good but still hard to implement folks would make horrid games with oversized charaters (so the graphics were viewable) which were so large that mobility was limited severely (by impinging on other features) lessesning game options.
 
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Kendall Merriman
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mckeon13 wrote:
My apology. Yes this is for a persuasive piece, and no it is not a research paper. This is a class (college) dealing with only writing. The instructor is more focused on good writting, proper MLA, well express ideas, and quotes then with the purity of the research done. And the questions that I put down were only to get people the start thinking about the topic. Being that I am a gamer my questions will be bias, since I think games are very important. However you should have also read that you can feel free to ask/answer question that you come up with yourself. This is an on the fly assignment, and I do not have the time to do full blown research on the subject.


Well, for a good persuasive piece, don't you need to consider the other side of the argument? If you only present one side, and don't bring up the counter arguments and explain the problems with them, it won't do much to persuade someone who may be leaning towards the answer opposite the one you are presenting. In any case, I think it might be advantageous to return to the topic at hand.

My opinions on the matter:
I am a social gamer, I enjoy playing games for the social experience they provide. My family would occasionally play games as a family activity, and some of my friends in school would play as well. In middle school, I started playing CCGs, specifically Star Wars, and the main reason that I enjoyed it was because it was a good test of my wits against those of my friends. This was the main reason I stayed in the game, even though it was somewhat expensive to stay in.

When my friends who played star wars moved away, and I couldn't find anyone else in the area who still played (the game was then in decline), I moved on to playing video games with my friends. We played warcraft and quake together, often in a computer lab or at a small lan party. This was also a social event, which was the main reason I liked it.

After a while, these games grew boring, and someone from the group brought out a copy of Axis And Allies. Again, we played this as a way to test our wits against one another, and it was a good social activity for the 5 of us. From there, we moved on to playing other games, and shortly after that to college. These three groups of games all influenced my development in some way, I think. I would not be the same kind of person were it not for some of the games we played. Things like Axis And Allies taught me a lot about taking turns, helping out friends and allies, and also probably taught me a bit about geography. Other games brought other lessons (though particular ones escape my mind at the present).

I know personally, I will probably teach my children to play games (when I have a family), and I expect they will learn from them as much as I have.

As for your question of comparison, there really isn't a good comparison. Each game has different purposes. I play video games when everyone can't get together in the same place, but when we are, I'll break out a good board game.

Now, that doesn't really provide you with a desenting opinion and arguments, but it is what I have to say on the matter. Any of your questions which I did not address, my answers have already been provided above, or are irrelevant to the current discussion.
 
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