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Subject: Rangestrikes across Slopes rss

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Dave Twigg
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Hello! Got a question about how rangestrikes and Slopes interact, specifically in regards to the Mountains. Pretty sure I've got it, but just in case...

Say I want to rangestrike from Mountain Hex B1 to Hex E3. That'd be starting from the highest elevation, going down a cliff, and then up one slope. The rules seem a bit fuzzy to me on this, because the slope rules indicate that, if a rangestrike crosses one slope, either the striker or the target needs to be directly on top of the slope, which isn't the case here. But, slope rules also say that the rangestrike can cross a cliff and a slope as long as the striker is on top of the cliff, which I would be.

To me, it sounds like the "cliff + slope" rule sort of supersedes the part about the target needing to be directly on top of a slope. And so I should be able to pull off the rangestrike. Am I reading that right? Maybe there's something in the rules specifically covering this and I'm just missing it.

Thanks in advance for the input!
 
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T. Dauphin
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I'm going to try to help you without having the board in front of me to check your reference (please forgive me if I don't cover your situation properly).

Line of sight rules are, unfortunately, often written in strictly board and map terms rather than pointing out the real world concept. In this case, the "directly on top of the slope" is meant to convey the idea that if you're too far back from the crest of the hill you can't see things at a lower level and vice versa. But if you're on top of one hill looking down--or across--at another hill there's nothing in the way to block your line of sight.

So from hill to hill at same level it doesn't matter where you are relative to the slope, but from higher to lower or the reverse, the higher one has to be right at the edge of the hilltop to be seen--ie next to the slope.

Hope that helps.

 
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David desJardins
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I think it's pretty much what you say.

A rangestrike may cross a slope or slopes before or after crossing a cliff if the rangestriker or target occupies the hex atop the cliff.

That means B1-E3 is allowed.
 
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Dave Twigg
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Awesome, thank you both! For whatever reason the rules just seem funky when it comes to the slopes. Maybe it's just me, but all the other terrain rules make perfect sense but with the way they're written I can't get my head around the slope rules. I totally understand why the rules about being "directly atop the slope" are what they are, makes sense that if you're right at the bottom of a hill, you wouldn't be able to see someone at the top that's standing way back from the edge.

I'm glad that this one works out to be a legal strike though, because I couldn't see the logic in being way high up on a cliff somewhere, looking down onto a plateau and not being able to shoot someone simply because they weren't close enough to the edge.
 
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Rahul Chandra
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If there were a range 5 rangestriker the rule would break down (it would be possible to have neither unit on top of the slope) but thankfully there is not.
 
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David desJardins
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I think the way the LOS rules are written is not designed to be logical; someone just looked at all of the cases that actually occur on the actual battle maps, and wrote a sufficient set of rules to cover all of the specific cases that actually arise.
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Dave Twigg
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That makes sense, I think you're probably right about that.

Sort of a different question, but out of curiosity, are there any 3-slope rangestrikes (other than ones involving the Volcano) that would be legal? I was looking over the Mountain and Hill boards and the only legal situations I can find involve the dragon sitting on the volcano and having a skill-4 rangestriker shoot at him (from F1, for example). Doesn't seem like something that would come up very often.
 
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Kelly Bass
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Swiggan wrote:
Sort of a different question, but out of curiosity, are there any 3-slope rangestrikes (other than ones involving the Volcano) that would be legal? I was looking over the Mountain and Hill boards and the only legal situations I can find involve the dragon sitting on the volcano and having a skill-4 rangestriker shoot at him (from F1, for example). Doesn't seem like something that would come up very often.

Mountains:
B1 - B4
B2 - C5
C1 - D4
 
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Dave Twigg
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chockle wrote:

Mountains:
B1 - B4
B2 - C5
C1 - D4


Good grief, how did I miss those? I did spot the last one the first time around but completely missed the other ones (B1-C4 as well). OK, thanks for that, I guess it's a little more common than I initially thought.
 
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Tony M
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One follow up question regarding the mountains, is a A2-D3 rangestrike permitted?

Based on:
rules wrote:
A rangestrike may cross three slopes if rangestriker or target is directly atop the third slope

it appears to be.

However, it looked odd with B2 and D3 being at the same elevation. It seemed like B2 would obstruct LOS.
 
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David desJardins
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tmarozas wrote:
One follow up question regarding the mountains, is a A2-D3 rangestrike permitted?

Based on:
rules wrote:
A rangestrike may cross three slopes if rangestriker or target is directly atop the third slope

it appears to be.

However, it looked odd with B2 and D3 being at the same elevation. It seemed like B2 would obstruct LOS.


You cut off the rules. It actually says, "A rangestrike may cross three slopes if the rangestriker or the target is directly atop the first slope and the other is atop the third slope." A2 is not atop a slope, so the answer is no.
 
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Tony M
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Thank you for that.

The Valley Games copy of the rules I was using did not have the additional text you provided. The entirety of the rules read:

Quote:
EFFECT ON RANGESTRIKING: A rangestrike may cross one
or two Slopes only if the hex Slope is occupied by either
the rangestriker or the target. A rangestrike may cross three
slopes if the rangestriker or the target is directly atop the
third Slope.
A rangestrike may cross a Slope or Slopes before
or after crossing a Cliff if the rangestriker or target occupies
the hex atop the Cliff. (Exception: see 13.5)


It looks like my rulebook had a truncated version of the rule. What you posted makes much more sense...

Interestingly, at least one .PDF of the AH rulebook I found online had the truncated text above as well. However, after I searched for the text you provided, I was able to find a copy of the rulebook with the rule as you referenced it. It looks like this rule might have been slightly different in different versions of the rules ?



 
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David desJardins
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tmarozas wrote:
It looks like this rule might have been slightly different in different versions of the rules ?


Possible. I've got many copies of the Avalon Hill game at home, when I get a chance I can look at some of them to see if the rules are different.
 
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Kris Giesing
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DaviddesJ wrote:
tmarozas wrote:
It looks like this rule might have been slightly different in different versions of the rules ?


Possible. I've got many copies of the Avalon Hill game at home, when I get a chance I can look at some of them to see if the rules are different.


I have copies of the AH and VG rules, and I see different wordings as described above. Never noticed that before.

FWIW, Titan HD has the VG wording. I'll change it to the AH wording.
 
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