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Subject: Another idea to fix what I see as the problems with ground forces. rss

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Steve
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On the ground combat CRT, I want to reduce the quickness where you reach a point where the smaller unit is almost useless. The +3 level is still automatic victory with no loss.

. . a] To do this add another "D" to both the -1 and -2 columns.
. . What this does is to make the 2 strength RT units have more of a chance of hitting the 4 strength JT destroying it before it can fire. It makes JT fear the 1st shot of RT somewhat more.

. . b] I also think that the RT units should be “Brigades”. They still cost 2, because of their long range Artillery. Two Brig. will fit into 1 TR. The JT are all Div. so 1 per TR and JT don't fit into BB or B1, etc. at all.

. . . . The new CRT makes weaker units a little better and the Brigade vs Division explains why the JT are so much bigger and better. The RT cost a lot still but, they have expensive Artillery that gives them a 1st shot. The 2 in a TR and no JT in BB are mostly window dressing that don't change things much, only the CRT changes things.
. . . . This is Vassal friendly. There are no changes to the unit selection process.

Added 6/22/16
See the post about changing the 4 CRT to fix several problems for another CRT change.
........................................................................

Another or an additional fix is -- reduce the cost of troops by 1 each and of PDM by 2 or 3.
. Now
. . RT cost $1 ea.
. . JT cost $2 ea.
. . PDM cost $8 ea. or $7 ea.

The point of this is to make reg. troops cost half what jump troops cost and PDM cost about 33% less.

 
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Gerry Smit
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I'd have thought Jump Troops without their heavy equipment would fit in BB (B1, B2) squadrons, and Regular Troops with their heavy equipment would not. Thus a "raid" could be a BB with JT making an attack. More thematic then an escorted TR with JT. All this assumes that the JT's higher values are due to training, esprit du corps, etc. rather than actual weaponry.
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Ethan McKinney
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My impression is that the JT values are partially based on weaponry, though not necessarily "heavy" weapons. Lots of high tech, high cost weapons to squeeze maximum lethality into the minimum package.
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Steve
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GerryRailBaron wrote:
I'd have thought Jump Troops without their heavy equipment would fit in BB (B1, B2) squadrons, and Regular Troops with their heavy equipment would not. Thus a "raid" could be a BB with JT making an attack. More thematic then an escorted TR with JT. All this assumes that the JT's higher values are due to training, esprit du corps, etc. rather than actual weaponry.

Thanks for your reply.

OK, I can see that.

What Ed. rules do you play, 1st or 2nd?

But, did you yourself ever buy BB or B1?

If not then, you are agreeing that buying BB is not smart.

However, since I intend to make BB a better buy and the main stays of the fleet, I will have to give your idea very serious thought.

BTW -- You have seen my post that proves that both nations JT are more than 5 times better on the average than their RT, but cost just 50% more. And that their 1st long range shot is really only useful when 2 are firing at 1 JT. Otherwise it is just a 0% or 17% chance of killing the JT. I just believe that being elite can't make your unit 5 times better.

I would gladly pay 3 RU for some Troops that were 4s, 5s or 6s; even if they lacked the 1st shot. Whatever light, expensive, powerful, but short range weapons explains the high strength of the JT could be added to the RT units TO&E, couldn't it? These changes to the CRT somewhat reduce the advantage of being stronger. Now, +1 is 1.33 (instead of 2) times as likely to kill the enemy as it is to die and +2 is just 2.5 (instead of 5) times as likely to kill the enemy as it is to die. But, +3 is still a guarenteed kill with no chance of dying.
 
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Ethan McKinney
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I think that there's a play balance/fun issue with actually being able to conquer planets ...
 
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Steve
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elbmc1969 wrote:
My impression is that the JT values are partially based on weaponry, though not necessarily "heavy" weapons. Lots of high tech, high cost weapons to squeeze maximum lethality into the minimum package.

OK, I guess that I agree with your point as far as it goes.

My problem is with the facts that a] RT have long range weapons [that are usually also expensive*] and b] There is no reason that the JT weapons couldn't be added to the TO&E of RT. The nations are just stupid to have the TO&E of RT be as it is. They are a terrible buy considering what you get and what you pay for it.**

In the "Dark Nebula" game the RT are much closer to JT in strengths. So, it is possible that Mark saw my problem way back when and corrected it in DN. Why he didn't correct it in his 2nd Ed. rules, I can't understand.

Notes --
* If the long range weapons are cheaper then why not arm all your units with them? Why buy expensive Muskets when you can buy rifled muskets cheaper?
** I just had a thought. Building on the muskets vs rifles thing; suppose that JT are armed with something equivalent to WWII submachineguns and RT are armed with bolt action rifles with some Artillery. This might explain the situation but it still doesn't explain why some or all RT are not armed with submachineguns too.
 
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Steve
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elbmc1969 wrote:
I think that there's a play balance/fun issue with actually being able to conquer planets ...

Another good point that I must keep in mind.

With Vassal it may be easy to let you buy more than 4 JT and so send more to invade. Swarm with many JT units. The defender can't be strong everywhere. He must defend on at least 2 fronts.

Edit to add, the particular Vassal Module I downloaded does not let you buy more JT.
 
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Steve
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In a comment in the file page I suggested that if you don't agree with me that JT are far better than RT I suggest that you try this some time.

Let players if they want pay $3 for RT counters and make 2 changes, plus 2 other changes.
. . 1] All the RT counters are now JT counters so the can jump and don't get 1st fire.
. . 2] All these RT counters have 2 points added to their combat factor.
Other changes --
. . 1] At the start you still get the RT counters as before they are just JT with 2 more CF now.
. . 2] During the interwar attrition/maint. phase if a JT is "lost" you must pay $1 more to retrain the resulting RT unit to turn it into a JT unit.

The resulting new JT units are about as strong as the original JT units, maybe a little weaker.


. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

The above was intended to show you why the RT are too expensive for what you get and it is stupid for the nations to continue to use that TO&E to organize RT units.

I have another idea along these lines.
. . 1] Use the original CRT for ground combat.
. . 2] Add 1 CF to all RT units as you convert them into JT units. So, they don't get 1st fire, cost $3, and can jump.

These new JT are not elite and this explains why they are now somewhat weaker on the average than the elite JT. But, they cost the same to equip.

. . . . . . . . .
I think that changing the CRT to my last changed CRT is much better because it hides the rule change. The above requires you to add 1 to the RT CF every time it fights. The new CRT is just switched for the old one at the start of the game.

 
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