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Subject: No SHIPS on the horizon rss

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Christian Fuerst-Brunner
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This update was sent yesterday to subscribers, but may be interesting to others, too.


SHIPS - Subscription Update

As some of you may know, Mayfair recently made an announcement about future collaborations, i.e. that there will not be any more. The standard version of Ships was going to be produced by Mayfair, at the same time as the limited edition – the only way of making the limited one economic to print. Mayfair wanted to produce the game for 2016, which I objected to and asked for the design to be returned to Treefrog. That means we will be doing both versions of the game.

As Treefrog is now based in New Zealand it makes sense for us to produce the game in China. The problem with using a European based company is that we have to pay the VAT on any copies that remain within the European Union, without the ability to claim it back. I have contacted a number of Chinese companies about production and am waiting for quotes. Before you get too worried I’m only using already established and well-respected production companies.

Hans is busy finishing off the artwork and rules. If all goes well then the files will be ready in the next few weeks. Production will be another two to three months, followed by shipping.

Julia and Martin
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Steve Rogers
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Christian,

Your subject line would have been more accurate as "Mayfair Cast Adrift!" laugh
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Is this going to be available retail in the US (CoolStuff, Miniature Market)?
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Francis K. Lalumiere
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I'm a little worried about the China thing. I know, I know, some printers out there really do produce good products, but I've been completely spoiled by the German production values of most (if not all) of the Treefrog games. I'm especially worried about the wooden pieces, which are invariably of inferior quality than their German counterparts.
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T. Fred
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Here is what MW said in response to the announcement by Mayfair.

Quote:
Yeah, bit of a surprise for me too, An issue came up concerning a joint project, called Ships. Treefrog was due to produce the limited edition version, for which we had taken advance payments. Mayfair was going to produce the standard edition. I was handling artwork and graphics, as well as the printing schedule. As many of the components are the same between the two games it only made economic sense to produce the limited edition at the same time as the standard one. We hit a problem when Mayfair wanted to delay production until 2016. I could not afford to alienate those people who had already paid money for the game, so asked for the title to be returned to Treefrog so that I could print it in 2015. I asked for something in writing to this effect. I was not expecting a public press release.


IMHO this may be a good thing --at least for the "standard" edition of Ships. As much as I like some Mayfair games (like Catan), they haven't been great on the Wallace stuff. For example, Aeroplanes: Aviation Ascendant is a great game marred by terrible production values. I have no idea why Mayfair went so low budget on that one, but it was certainly disappointing. So I'm hopeful Ships will be of higher production quality.
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Adam P
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Kickstarter! EDIT: just kidding
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M.C.Crispy
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weishaupt wrote:
I'm especially worried about the wooden pieces, which are invariably of inferior quality than their German counterparts.
Well, FWiW, the wooden pieces that came with my limited editions of Onward to Venus and Mythotopia were pretty blooming awful on a number of levels, so I doubt that a manufacturer in China would be much worse.
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Francis K. Lalumiere
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FezAZ wrote:
Here is what MW said in response to the announcement by Mayfair.

Quote:
Yeah, bit of a surprise for me too, An issue came up concerning a joint project, called Ships. Treefrog was due to produce the limited edition version, for which we had taken advance payments. Mayfair was going to produce the standard edition. I was handling artwork and graphics, as well as the printing schedule. As many of the components are the same between the two games it only made economic sense to produce the limited edition at the same time as the standard one. We hit a problem when Mayfair wanted to delay production until 2016. I could not afford to alienate those people who had already paid money for the game, so asked for the title to be returned to Treefrog so that I could print it in 2015. I asked for something in writing to this effect. I was not expecting a public press release.


IMHO this may be a good thing --at least for the "standard" edition of Ships. As much as I like some Mayfair games (like Catan), they haven't been great on the Wallace stuff. For example, Aeroplanes: Aviation Ascendant is a great game marred by terrible production values. I have no idea why Mayfair went so low budget on that one, but it was certainly disappointing. So I'm hopeful Ships will be of higher production quality.

Frankly, I'm amazed that any game publisher would drop a prolific designer like Martin Wallace. Unless Martin is the kind to behave like an asshole, which I seriously doubt is the case.

About the only Mayfair games I would buy were the Wallace ones. But fine, I'll take my business elsewhere.
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Tom
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weishaupt wrote:
FezAZ wrote:
Here is what MW said in response to the announcement by Mayfair.

Quote:
Yeah, bit of a surprise for me too, An issue came up concerning a joint project, called Ships. Treefrog was due to produce the limited edition version, for which we had taken advance payments. Mayfair was going to produce the standard edition. I was handling artwork and graphics, as well as the printing schedule. As many of the components are the same between the two games it only made economic sense to produce the limited edition at the same time as the standard one. We hit a problem when Mayfair wanted to delay production until 2016. I could not afford to alienate those people who had already paid money for the game, so asked for the title to be returned to Treefrog so that I could print it in 2015. I asked for something in writing to this effect. I was not expecting a public press release.


IMHO this may be a good thing --at least for the "standard" edition of Ships. As much as I like some Mayfair games (like Catan), they haven't been great on the Wallace stuff. For example, Aeroplanes: Aviation Ascendant is a great game marred by terrible production values. I have no idea why Mayfair went so low budget on that one, but it was certainly disappointing. So I'm hopeful Ships will be of higher production quality.

Frankly, I'm amazed that any game publisher would drop a prolific designer like Martin Wallace. Unless Martin is the kind to behave like an asshole, which I seriously doubt is the case.

About the only Mayfair games I would buy were the Wallace ones. But fine, I'll take my business elsewhere.


I really like and support martin. However, I suspect if you take all of his games made for Mayfair their sales don't add up to the sales of Catan. I suspect when martin insisted that he couldn't wait to release ships next year they got mad and said see you later.

This is the kind of thing I worry about as the hobby explodes. When a designer like Lang can put a vikings game inspired by chaos in the old world (his words) out; so area control and battles; and make a million or more, I suspect the thought going through some owner's mind is why put up with a designer that can only make 70k.

For that matter since many of these companies are being snatched up by conglomerates why not stick to publishing games like exploding kittens that cost almost zero to make and broke all Kickstarter records for game sales and money raised? Plus kittens probably will end up being another cards against humanity and continue to sell so well that in a few years 1/10 families own it. I really worry about the fragility of niche games that don't appeal to the masses or don't have minis in them.
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Surya Van Lierde is pure Eurosnoot and proud of it!
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Knowing Martin I can say that he is always willing to work on a compromise but if he believes a certain decision is wrong, he will take a firm stance because he cares about his games.

Mayfair has long been producing games that don't make them any money. They don't need to as long as Catan keeps selling the way it has, so they won't miss any business you or anyone stops giving them because they no longer publish Martin's games. I'm quite confident that they lost money on some of his games a well.
I for one never liked the artwork and component quality Mayfair had, so I'm not sorry to see their cooperation end. I just hope Treefrog finds a way to publish the games they want to publish and still stay afloat.
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James Clarke
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Production will be another two to three months, followed by shipping.

Does anyone know the shipping forecast?
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Jim Chaney
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Container ships take about 28 days to carry cargo from China to Europe.

My current estimates:

Rules - 1 month
Production - 3 months
Shipping - 1 month
Scheduling Delays - 1 month

That would make it mid-Sept. Right now I would be happy if I get the last of the 2014 Treefrog Subscription in 2015. Or at all.
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Robert Forrest
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DainHarper wrote:
That would make it mid-Sept. Right now I would be happy if I get the last of the 2014 Treefrog Subscription in 2015. Or at all.


Given that he apparently lost his relationship with Mayfair to get it produced this year, I'm pretty sure you will.
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James Clarke
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M.C.Crispy
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Well, it has at least "gone to production" and will take ~10 weeks then shipping time from China. So somewhere around Essen the year after the Essen that we might have expected. Still, it'll be worth the wait. Next up, Discworld III.
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Francis K. Lalumiere
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mccrispy wrote:
Well, it has at least "gone to production" and will take ~10 weeks then shipping time from China. So somewhere around Essen the year after the Essen that we might have expected. Still, it'll be worth the wait. Next up, Discworld III.

No! The next one has to be Martin's science fiction version of Mythotopia.
I frankly can't wait.
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Chris
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Certainly at of tumbleweed from treefrog in general. No updates to their website in 2015!
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James Clarke
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James Clarke
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^^
Would've made a smart album sleeve in the 1970s, don't you think?

I just find it a bit odd that a game we all bought over a year ago and is currently in production, has almost zero threads and actually zero photos to enjoy anywhere. And here on the BGG main listing, it still says "no image available". I don't think the rules have ever been uploaded anywhere either?

I'm a big Automobile fan, and have been looking forward to this one most of all out of the three.
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Surya Van Lierde is pure Eurosnoot and proud of it!
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No reason to worry. Treefrog has always worked very hard to fulfil their promises. Sometimes with some delay.
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Chris
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LAND HO!

http://www.treefroggames.com/ships
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Francis K. Lalumiere
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TheRocketSurgeon wrote:

Drool...
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Chris
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Certainly looks like Peter Dennis's best artwork to date, maybe Ankh Morpork aside... Certainly a long cry from Perikles!
 
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James Clarke
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It will be interesting to see how the Limited Edition (wooden) versions of the counters turned out.

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Looks very nice indeed!
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