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Subject: Why no tiebreaker ? rss

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Nick Fisk
United Kingdom
Stoke on Trent
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Come on you Seagulls! Sami Hyppia's Blue & White army!
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That's weird. This bit used to mention Shire Games, and tell you all how wonderful we are. But it seems to have got deleted. Let's see what happens this time ....
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In the case of a tie, the winning players share the victory.

What could the reason for this be, when there are two obvious tie-breakers to be used (gold or camels)?

I'm not criticising, I love this game, I'm just wondering why they went for the "shared victory" option.

N.

 
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Tim Seitz
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Glen Allen
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Like water spilled on the ground, which cannot be recovered, so we must die. But God does not take away life; instead, he devises ways so that a banished person may not remain estranged from him. 2 Sam 14:14
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I'm pretty sure that rule applies to all of the Ys published games. The same rule is in Caylus, and I think in their first game as well. They are French. (If that has anything to do with it...)
 
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William Attia
France
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Actually, there is a (partial) tie-breaker in Ys (total number of collected gems).

There is none in Caylus because I am no big fan of tie-breakers, and ties are rare enough considering the number of points the players will have in the end. Also, when there is a tie-breaker, I like it to break all possible ties, without having to use a second tie-breaker or accept that some games are tied after all (if there are going to be ties anyway, why bother breaking some of them?). That means that "most castle parts built" or "most deniers" or similar things would not have worked - and while "turn order" could work, it doesn't looks too great as a tie-breaker in my opinion.

As for Yspahan, I don't think there is any need for a tie-breaker either, since ties here as well are likely to be uncommon (with the winner having about 70 to 90 points), but I don't know whether the designer has any strong opinion about that.

I suppose that whoever really wants a tie-breaker can go for most remaining "camels + gold", but that will not break all possible ties, and I cannot think of anything which would.

William
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Tim Seitz
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Glen Allen
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Like water spilled on the ground, which cannot be recovered, so we must die. But God does not take away life; instead, he devises ways so that a banished person may not remain estranged from him. 2 Sam 14:14
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Wow! Celebrity reply!
It's great to have designer insight to their thinking process. Thanks, William!

And thanks for a great, addictive game.

 
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Scott Nelson
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Very often I find that unless you are keeping track of who wins a certain amount of games over a set amount of time, that simply put, I only care that I had fun. I don't mind sharing victory, as long as we all had a good time, the winner-syndrome only last for a few minutes until everyone starts to talk about what they liked about it, or didn't, or strategies they figured out. Caylus, I have never got a tie. Mykerinos, I have. Ys, I have tied. Don't have Yspahan so I haven't had a tie there. Hoping to get it soon. One other point is that the game isn't the same when you have to figure out ties. It loses a little gusto on the endgame. Tie-breaking is okay, but not a need in every game unless it is in-theme.
 
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Karis Shem
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Like William, I'm not a big fan of tie-breaker.
I put one in Ys, because this particular tie breaker (most gems) had a sense, but i think it's not a good idea to decide a hard fought game because of a small detail (most of the time without any direct relationship with the game stucture)...

I think Sebastien has the same kind of point of view, since he put no tie-breaker but i may be wrong (and he's from Switzerland, not France)...

Regards,
Cyril
 
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Dan Rosewater
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In our gaming group we also play championships. So at the end of any game we need clear rankings. If in a rare case there would be a tie and the rules do not offer a tie breaker, then we need to choose one ourself. Gold or Camels or both. It is convenient to choose those before play (when doing championships or similar). Therefore I don't mind if the author did not settle it within the rules.





 
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Dave Eisen
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I don't like tie breakers either, at least I don't when it's a fundamentally different goal from what the game has. Most are.

I mean you are trying to accumulate VP here, mostly from building in souks or from building buildings. You are not trying to accumulate gold except as a means to an end. Why should most gold determine who wins?

I understand the need for a tie breaker in a single elimination tournament. Special case, since I don't go to the WBCs, I have never played a tournament of any of these games. And in games like Power Grid, Antiquity, and Elfenland where ties are frequent, the tie breakers seem to work: players plan to improve their tie-breaker position from the start of the game.

But I don't see where adding one to Caylus or Yspahan would improve the game.
 
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Josh Martin
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I should point out that there IS a tiebreaker situation in another Ystari game, Mykerinos. The reason I'm aware of this is that I recently finished second in a 4-player game. Winning score: 48. My score: 48. But, ah, the winning player had one more cube left over than me, the tie-breaking condition.
 
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