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Subject: On the fence re: Journeyman rss

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Michael Hancock-Parmer
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Dear BGGers, Kickstarters are problematic. I can't help but feel that some of us have admitted to ourselves that we were suckered into playtesting the first edition when we kickstarted Myth. I won't rehash those problems and allegations, some levied against the game, others against the company.

I am with Rahdo, more or less, if you've watched his Runs Through on YouTube. The potential in this game is quite magical, the card-based combat still feels novel, and the level of cooperation is rewarding.

I also have been very happy with the Fury of the Fireborne material, for what that's worth. If that is the model for their modules moving forward, I think that's grand.

The Choices
1: Minion Level backer
So, the good folks at Megacon would look at my Kickstarted Myth and wonder, are you going to go another round? That would mean another $120 [maybe without shipping if I still live in Indy when this comes out] which would mean updated cards, two new boxes, and another pile of minis -- all not to arrive before June 2016, but probably more realistically before or after Christmas 2016. There's no way to know what other stretch goals will unlock, though, so this means I shouldn't make a choice until the last day. Yet, the journeyman box isn't so attractive. I would rather not have "upgraded" minis of the heroes, especially if only some genders get them with the Minion-level backing. Upgrading my heroes isn't as important to me if I don't have the fun gameplay that pushes my heroes to come back to the table.

2: All-in modules
I don't see myself doing both, but only backing the All-In at $130 is somewhat attractive. Once I admit it is the "story content" more than the prospect of Journey-class cards, this seems more the thing. I feel that the Fury of the Fireborne was a step in the right direction, and I sincerely applaud them for that. I don't consider myself a Myth fanboy, though I was a strong supporter before becoming quite jaded with the "so what" gameplay. I'm not a teenage or college kid anymore and the effort it takes to put a game on the table must be rewarded -- and as so many have said, there are so many games which offer more consistent results, though not the unique gameplay of Myth.

3: Printed Materials Only
Part of me really wants to just give them $6 for the updated print materials from Myth. Which is almost to rudely say, "Here, have some more money so you can finish fixing the game I backed several years ago." If this option came with Journeyman cards, minus the added minis, I feel like it would be the break-away winner in terms of backers.

General Misgivings
Separating Megacon from this game, I believe Myth in and of itself would benefit from the game-makers taking a firm grasp of the mechanics and telling their own stories. This, in turn, would give the impetus to playtest and create a better functioning game, since now it is Their Story that isn't getting told.

I don't have the time or patience to take their materials and "make it up" as I go -- it sounded much nicer than it was in practice, because you end up with a lot of, "So what?" moments. I understand that populating your own tile is fun, but I feel it is a much of a muchness and more of a cop-out to avoid balancing/testing.
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Erik Webb
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miflhanc wrote:


General Misgivings
Separating Megacon from this game, I believe Myth in and of itself would benefit from the game-makers taking a firm grasp of the mechanics and telling their own stories. This, in turn, would give the impetus to playtest and create a better functioning game, since now it is Their Story that isn't getting told.

I don't have the time or patience to take their materials and "make it up" as I go -- it sounded much nicer than it was in practice, because you end up with a lot of, "So what?" moments. I understand that populating your own tile is fun, but I feel it is a much of a muchness and more of a cop-out to avoid balancing/testing.


The modules will help with this. However myself and many other prefer the Adventuring mode greatly. And the Adventuring mode was the premise that Myth was created from.

Regardless of a set story I still feel the first KS would have had issues due to a lack of blind play testing.

Going forward blind play testing will help, as well as separating out the modules. I feel that both modes will benefit from the playtesting/design of the other. And they both will get better because of it.
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Erik Webb
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Oh and the alt genders for the upgraded minis will be a SG at some point, this was confirmed. And it will be a single SG for all the heroes(base ones at least).
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Aaron R
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miflhanc wrote:
If this option came with Journeyman cards, minus the added minis, I feel like it would be the break-away winner in terms of backers.


This is where I am. I haven't managed to get this to the table nearly often enough to make it worth the $150 I've already sunk into it. I'm hoping to rectify that at some point, but I really don't need a huge new influx of minis. I'd really love the option of being able to advance my characters playing with the huge pile of minis I already own. Especially since most of the bosses are designed to be fought with higher level heroes.
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J Ry
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galagaew wrote:
Oh and the alt genders for the upgraded minis will be a SG at some point, this was confirmed. And it will be a single SG for all the heroes(base ones at least).


There are so many potential stretch goals at this point it's not even funny.

The alt gender journeymen figures.
Undead commander.
Pet figures.
Mini bosses for the new enemies.
Journeyman decks for the other heroes; skald, Spriggan, trickster.
And the big one I'm hoping to see, a drake/Dragon race for the Dragon boss to lead.

I'm just hoping that they don't plan on it getting too high with the goal setup.
I expect this will do about 2/3 the original, or about double where it's at now.
So we will see.
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Erik Webb
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ropya wrote:
galagaew wrote:
Oh and the alt genders for the upgraded minis will be a SG at some point, this was confirmed. And it will be a single SG for all the heroes(base ones at least).


There are so many potential stretch goals at this point it's not even funny.

The alt gender journeymen figures.
Undead commander.
Pet figures.
Mini bosses for the new enemies.
Journeyman decks for the other heroes; skald, Spriggan, trickster.
And the big one I'm hoping to see, a drake/Dragon race for the Dragon boss to lead.

I'm just hoping that they don't plan on it getting too high with the goal setup.
I expect this will do about 2/3 the original, or about double where it's at now.
So we will see.


Journeyman decks for the other heroes will likely be an add-on. As not everyone will have them.

Minibosses for the Nagas and slime guys are in the journeyman expansion boxes. The clockwork miniboss was in the Recon KS.
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Lan
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miflhanc wrote:
2: All-in modules

This is a serious consideration for me too. Keep in mind, without the stretch goals, you will be short the full set of 20 minions, 4 captains, 1 commander, 1 boss for each module. The included quests will more than likely call for these, but my guess is that they will be easy to proxy.
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Brant Benoit
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galagaew wrote:
The clockwork miniboss was in the Recon KS.


Then this should definitely be an add-on, as well as the Myth contents of Recon. I didn't back Recon, but I'm backing this. I'd like to see those options made available.
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Bubba Bull
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You know what really hit me last night about this KS: I am currently backing at around 300$ (not including shipping) and I already paid a lot for the first round. Considering that there will be two more expansion levels (for master and legend) I would probably be spending more than 1000$ for a boardgame blush I guess my wife was right when she said I was addicted whistle
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Crusher Crancko
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Get in and then decide at the end if you keep your pledge or not based on the final result... I bet it would be really good value as it was the 1st campaign.

To me the real drawback is the shipping cost. I am confident they will fix it.
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Erik Webb
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BubbaBull wrote:
You know what really hit me last night about this KS: I am currently backing at around 300$ (not including shipping) and I already paid a lot for the first round. Considering that there will be two more expansion levels (for master and legend) I would probably be spending more than 1000$ for a boardgame blush I guess my wife was right when she said I was addicted whistle


I justify it to the wife by saying I am getting it to bond with my son. He is a big fan of it as is as addicted to it as me. If it was just for me she might have shot it down.
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Riccardo Menozzi
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A very important thing that came up in the comments in the Module update is that they are planning on making SGs about what they call Module-lite, here is a direct quote

Quote:

Module-lites will be given as SGs free for all. They are basically full Modules but use minis you already have from the base game and the expansions.


I think this will add so much value to the minion level, since a lot of people (like me) are interested in Journeyman but not want to drop more money on modules
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Erik Webb
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They already have one up as a SG. The lucy "Avatar of Shadow" module.
 
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Charlie Theel
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Does that Lucy module totally replace the Lucy quest chain?

If so, that's neat but it kind of muddles up my quest deck. Now I'll need to see what modules there are and remove the appropriate quests?
 
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Erik Webb
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charlest wrote:
Does that Lucy module totally replace the Lucy quest chain?

If so, that's neat but it kind of muddles up my quest deck. Now I'll need to see what modules there are and remove the appropriate quests?


No it extends the lucy chain from what they are saying.
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Charlie Theel
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Ah, better. So much information flying in this Kickstarter it's hard to keep up.
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J Ry
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galagaew wrote:
ropya wrote:
galagaew wrote:
Oh and the alt genders for the upgraded minis will be a SG at some point, this was confirmed. And it will be a single SG for all the heroes(base ones at least).


There are so many potential stretch goals at this point it's not even funny.

The alt gender journeymen figures.
Undead commander.
Pet figures.
Mini bosses for the new enemies.
Journeyman decks for the other heroes; skald, Spriggan, trickster.
And the big one I'm hoping to see, a drake/Dragon race for the Dragon boss to lead.

I'm just hoping that they don't plan on it getting too high with the goal setup.
I expect this will do about 2/3 the original, or about double where it's at now.
So we will see.


Journeyman decks for the other heroes will likely be an add-on. As not everyone will have them.

Minibosses for the Nagas and slime guys are in the journeyman expansion boxes. The clockwork miniboss was in the Recon KS.


Ya know, I missed that.

Makes me wonder when they are gonna learn though.

Why would you have a slime mini boss instead of a gator mini boss?
 
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Erik Webb
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ropya wrote:
galagaew wrote:
ropya wrote:
galagaew wrote:
Oh and the alt genders for the upgraded minis will be a SG at some point, this was confirmed. And it will be a single SG for all the heroes(base ones at least).


There are so many potential stretch goals at this point it's not even funny.

The alt gender journeymen figures.
Undead commander.
Pet figures.
Mini bosses for the new enemies.
Journeyman decks for the other heroes; skald, Spriggan, trickster.
And the big one I'm hoping to see, a drake/Dragon race for the Dragon boss to lead.

I'm just hoping that they don't plan on it getting too high with the goal setup.
I expect this will do about 2/3 the original, or about double where it's at now.
So we will see.


Journeyman decks for the other heroes will likely be an add-on. As not everyone will have them.

Minibosses for the Nagas and slime guys are in the journeyman expansion boxes. The clockwork miniboss was in the Recon KS.


Those are commanders not mini bosses unless I'm mistaken.


Nope commanders are in the modules

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1700755582/myth-journey...

shows them as mini-bosses
 
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J Ry
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galagaew wrote:
ropya wrote:
galagaew wrote:
ropya wrote:
galagaew wrote:
Oh and the alt genders for the upgraded minis will be a SG at some point, this was confirmed. And it will be a single SG for all the heroes(base ones at least).


There are so many potential stretch goals at this point it's not even funny.

The alt gender journeymen figures.
Undead commander.
Pet figures.
Mini bosses for the new enemies.
Journeyman decks for the other heroes; skald, Spriggan, trickster.
And the big one I'm hoping to see, a drake/Dragon race for the Dragon boss to lead.

I'm just hoping that they don't plan on it getting too high with the goal setup.
I expect this will do about 2/3 the original, or about double where it's at now.
So we will see.


Journeyman decks for the other heroes will likely be an add-on. As not everyone will have them.

Minibosses for the Nagas and slime guys are in the journeyman expansion boxes. The clockwork miniboss was in the Recon KS.


Those are commanders not mini bosses unless I'm mistaken.


Nope commanders are in the modules

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1700755582/myth-journey...

shows them as mini-bosses


Yeah, saw that after looking.
Again makes me wonder why they would have a slime mini boss instead of a gator one?

On that note though, I believe there are a couple races from the base KS without mini bosses.
 
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Erik Webb
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ropya wrote:
galagaew wrote:
ropya wrote:
galagaew wrote:
ropya wrote:
galagaew wrote:
Oh and the alt genders for the upgraded minis will be a SG at some point, this was confirmed. And it will be a single SG for all the heroes(base ones at least).


There are so many potential stretch goals at this point it's not even funny.

The alt gender journeymen figures.
Undead commander.
Pet figures.
Mini bosses for the new enemies.
Journeyman decks for the other heroes; skald, Spriggan, trickster.
And the big one I'm hoping to see, a drake/Dragon race for the Dragon boss to lead.

I'm just hoping that they don't plan on it getting too high with the goal setup.
I expect this will do about 2/3 the original, or about double where it's at now.
So we will see.


Journeyman decks for the other heroes will likely be an add-on. As not everyone will have them.

Minibosses for the Nagas and slime guys are in the journeyman expansion boxes. The clockwork miniboss was in the Recon KS.


Those are commanders not mini bosses unless I'm mistaken.


Nope commanders are in the modules

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1700755582/myth-journey...

shows them as mini-bosses


Yeah, saw that after looking.
Again makes me wonder why they would have a slime mini boss instead of a gator one?

On that note though, I believe there are a couple races from the base KS without mini bosses.


Yeah there is no sycline, arachnid, or elemental mini-boss. Also Keesi & Og counts as both rat and orc.

Not a big deal though, because mini-bosses don't need to be tied to a race. We have Minotaur, Twilight Knight, Conner etc....
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J Ry
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True.

But it'd be cooler if they did.

I'll have to go thru my bones minis and see if I can put together some mini bosses for the races missing them.

Razorback too, but I think that was loosely tied to the cyclops.
 
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ropya wrote:
True.
Razorback too, but I think that was loosely tied to the cyclops.


No, the syncline are plants according to the KS adventure.

The razorfiend is tied to orcs, as they basically prod it into battle a la Lord of the Rings: 'they have a cave troll!'
 
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Marcus the Ready wrote:
ropya wrote:
True.
Razorback too, but I think that was loosely tied to the cyclops.


No, the syncline are plants according to the KS adventure.

The razorfiend is tied to orcs, as they basically prod it into battle a la Lord of the Rings: 'they have a cave troll!'


AH, there ya go.
Wasnt remembering correctly, but I knew he was tied into someone.

 
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Jeff K
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lanoman97 wrote:
miflhanc wrote:
2: All-in modules

This is a serious consideration for me too. Keep in mind, without the stretch goals, you will be short the full set of 20 minions, 4 captains, 1 commander, 1 boss for each module. The included quests will more than likely call for these, but my guess is that they will be easy to proxy.


This puts kind of a twist on it. They have stated that there is no guarantee that the Modules will eventually be available at retail. This could be sales-speak, but I guess it really depends on how well the KS does and how much in the way of funds they have to produce them. So it's a bit of an unknown, although I'd be surprised if none of them were ever available.

But if they are, then they indicated that all the modules will be more like the FoF Module, with the 20/4/1 group of minis, and the corresponding $40 price tag. If all 4 Other Modules were to be unlocked (3 now, and I'd be kind of surprised if they aren't, but you never know), then you would be looking at $320 retail.

Even at OLGS discounts, the $130 for All-in is still about half of what you'd pay. It would be even worse for non-backers, because they would have to track down the bosses, and maybe some mini-bosses for them. What would be worse for retail buyers is if they left it at 10/2/1, then you would be looking at needing Boss, Captain and Minion expansions. That adds up REAL quick, around $60 per module even at discount. That's almost $500 if 8 Modules were available.

That is starting to make the All-in look pretty tempting. The fence I am sitting on is getting a little rickety.

EDIT: I meant to add: this is all assuming that Module play appeals to you. If you prefer Adventuring Mode, then maybe not as you have enough to spawn one lair and even bosses and maybe mini-bosses. Commanders become a bit sticky, as it sounds as if you may really need them, but no doubt this is whay they are in the modules boxes, eh?
 
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MM
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Xookliba wrote:
That is starting to make the All-in look pretty tempting. The fence I am sitting on is getting a little rickety.


I agree its getting close when the "all-in" becomes almost too good to pass up. Whenever the dam breaks, I think this KS will spike up a fair amount. I know I'm sitting at $120 waiting for that moment when the "all in" is too good.

Next module unlock is probably the point for me.
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