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Subject: New Playtested Card: Mosaic rss

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Levi Petty
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Mosaic:
You may choose an Action card from your hand. Play it twice. Then, choose one: +1 card per $ it cost, then discard a card for every card drawn this way; or, if it cost...
$4 or less: Each other player discards down to 3 cards in hand,
$5 or more, or has potions in its cost: Choose one: Each other player discards down to 3 cards in hand; or, each other player gains a Curse.
----------------------------------------------
When you gain this, each other player gains a Potion or a Silver, their choice.
Cost: $4+P
Type: Action, Attack

As the title of the post says, we've playtested this. Despite how OP it sounds, it's actually very well balanced.

EDIT: This was supposed to cost $4+P, not $5+P.
 
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Matt E
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It doesn't matter how balanced it is if it's too complex.
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Kirk Monsen
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Did you really mean $5 or less?
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Levi Petty
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MunchWolf wrote:
Did you really mean $5 or less?


No, I did not. Thanks for pointing that out.
 
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Kirk Monsen
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two thoughts,

1) you are already playing a card twice. Why are cheaper cards penalized, and more expensive cards rewarded? More expensive cards are usually better than their cheaper counterparts, so adding an extra reward on top for playing one seems odd.

2) how do you handle cards with potion costs? Golem, which costs 4p is neither $4 or less, or $5 or more. Familiar, even though it costs 1p is not $4 or less. Possession, costing 6p, is not $5 or more. Do cards from alchemy not count for that part of the card? Which is silly as this card is a potion costing card, so other alchemy cards would be included in the set.
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Levi Petty
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MunchWolf wrote:
two thoughts,

1) you are already playing a card twice. Why are cheaper cards penalized, and more expensive cards rewarded? More expensive cards are usually better than their cheaper counterparts, so adding an extra reward on top for playing one seems odd.

2) how do you handle cards with potion costs? Golem, which costs 4p is neither $4 or less, or $5 or more. Familiar, even though it costs 1p is not $4 or less. Possession, costing 6p, is not $5 or more. Do cards from alchemy not count for that part of the card? Which is silly as this card is a potion costing card, so other alchemy cards would be included in the set.


2) According to the official dominion rules, if a card cost $0+P, it would cost more than a card costing $X for all X. This means that in this case, if a card had potions in its cost, it would technically cost $5 or more, regardless of how many coins it cost.
 
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Chris Schumann
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Gubump wrote:
2) According to the official dominion rules, if a card cost $0+P, it would cost more than a card costing $X for all X. This means that in this case, if a card had potions in its cost, it would technically cost $5 or more, regardless of how many coins it cost.

Not by my reading.

Here's a quote:
Quote:
A card costing 3P does not cost 5 or less.


So 2P is clearly more than 2, and more than 0P. And from this excerpt, 3P is not less than 5.

I cannot find any rule that supports "0P > N for any N". It would be a game changer.
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James Newton
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Yes - with potions it is not always the case that, for cards X and Y with different costs, X < Y or X > Y. It can be that X costs neither less or more than Y (and is not the same as it). Potions make cost into a non-linear scale.

To see this, suppose that I have 3 Coins and a Potion to spend; can I buy a card costing 5 coins? No.

Alternatively suppose I have just 4 Coins to spend; can I buy a card costing 3 Coins and a Potion? No.

So 3$ + P is not 5$ or more, nor is it 4$ or less.
 
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Levi Petty
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churchmouse wrote:
Yes - with potions it is not always the case that, for cards X and Y with different costs, X < Y or X > Y. It can be that X costs neither less or more than Y (and is not the same as it). Potions make cost into a non-linear scale.

To see this, suppose that I have 3 Coins and a Potion to spend; can I buy a card costing 5 coins? No.

Alternatively suppose I have just 4 Coins to spend; can I buy a card costing 3 Coins and a Potion? No.

So 3$ + P is not 5$ or more, nor is it 4$ or less.


The intention was that potion-cost cards gave you the stronger attack capability, so I edited the OP.
 
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LastFootnote wrote:
It doesn't matter how balanced it is if it's too complex.


Like Native Village


Spoiler (click to reveal)
Yes, I read in the designer diary that even though NV has a wall of text, it's easy once you just read it. However, I've still seen people's eyes glaze over that card from time to time.
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Kirk Monsen
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Gubump wrote:


The intention was that potion-cost cards gave you the stronger attack capability, so I edited the OP.


But why do they need to be more powerful? They already are a powerful option, especially played twice.
 
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Roberta Yang
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*high pitched six-year-old voice* "Ooh, I'm gonna make the bestest card in the whole world! It's, it's like throne room, but then it lets you draw a bunches of extra cards too, and, and then it's also a militia, and but sometimes it's a witch too if you're even betterer, and it does something when you gain it, and, and, and, and, and, and, and,

ackmondual wrote:
LastFootnote wrote:
It doesn't matter how balanced it is if it's too complex.


Like Native Village


Spoiler (click to reveal)
Yes, I read in the designer diary that even though NV has a wall of text, it's easy once you just read it. However, I've still seen people's eyes glaze over that card from time to time.

Now imagine if Native Village didn't have a very simple mental shorthand once you understood it. And needed to be printed in 4 point font to fit in the text box.

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