Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
7 Posts

Unconditional Surrender! World War 2 in Europe» Forums » Rules

Subject: Vichy France rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Greg Johnsen
United States
Florida
flag msg tools
mb
Hello,

My questions concerns as to when the Axis can declare war on Vichy France. I did not see any rules limiting the time. Most games I have played limit when Vichy can be declared on after France surrenders, i.e. a 6 month or more grace period. I see no such limitation in this game but I do think it creates a balance issue. What I see happening in my games is that the Axis declare war on Vichy right after France falls. Vichy has only a 50/50 chance of even fighting. Vichy is conquered so the Axis gets a chit in the cup and puts an influence chit in Spain. All the Axis has to do is draw a political success or an influence chit from the cup and Spain is theirs. I realize the same chit could be place there after conquering France but usually that chit is used on Italy.

Is it me or does it seem too easy to get Spain?

Thank you.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James
United Kingdom
Sheffield
South Yorkshire
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
The axis can declare war on Vichy in the Declare War Phase following the turn in which France is conquered.

The situation you described seems reasonable, on the condition that the Nazi-Soviet Pact is in effect.

The value of conquering Vichy and activating Spain is debateable.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Salvatore Vasta
United States
Woodstock
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
There is no limit as to when you can declare war on Vichy other than waiting for the Declare War phase.

As for being easy to get Spain, pulling a Political Success or Pro-Axis marker is still a random event you only have a certain amount of control over. The West can also remove the Pro-Axis in Spain with its own successful draw.

The potential downside to conquering Vichy is that it adds another conquered country to the Axis total of conquered Allied countries and that could give the Soviet faction a higher Strategic Warfare DRM.

Sal
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonathan Yedidia
United States
Cambridge
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Also, you should note that the half the time that Vichy doesn't fight, you don't actually get the benefits (and drawbacks) of conquering a country.

The rules say "Instead of performing the steps under 13.2.2, all the country’s counters are removed from the scenario."

So to get the benefits and drawbacks, you need to actually fight the Vichy forces and conquer them.

By the way, your strategy of trying to conquer Vichy to get Spain on the Axis side is a reasonable one and has a reasonable historical interpretation. In the real Hitler-Franco discussions about whether Spain would join the Axis, Franco asked as a price for joining the Axis for a good chunk of French territory (albeit mostly in French North Africa) and Hitler wasn't so interested in that, preferring to try to keep the Vichy French is friendly as possible.

I don't think though that it creates any kind of balance issue.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Salvatore Vasta
United States
Woodstock
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Good point, Jonathan.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Greg Johnsen
United States
Florida
flag msg tools
mb
Thank you all for your responses.

I see now that my group is interpreting the rule wrong regarding Vichy and other Vichy territories being conquered with regards to rule 13.2.2. So if Vichy does not fight the Axis do not get the benefit of the political chit in an adjacent country and one in the cup. So its basically a 50/50 chance that the Axis gets this benefit. I would also assume then that if Vichy collapses without a fight that country would not count against the Axis in strategic warfare with the USSR.

Thank you again.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonathan Yedidia
United States
Cambridge
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
gregjohnsen wrote:
I would also assume then that if Vichy collapses without a fight that country would not count against the Axis in strategic warfare with the USSR.


That is correct. Because all of Vichy's counters are removed from the game if it is conquered without a fight, no counter is placed by the Axis in their conquered country box, and thus there is no counter to count against the Axis in strategic warfare with the USSR.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.