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Subject: Confused by last FAQ question and answer on page 11 of instructions rss

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Richard Hirschman
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Here is the question and answer of the last FAQ on page 11:
Question: I have exceeded my kiai value. At the beginning of my turn I sustain a wound from my last Raider card. My Samurai board was showing the human side and had a wound token. So I turn over my board to the animal side, remove the wound token and return my meeple to my battle track. Mus I now pass?
Answer: No, the Pass action is only compulsory if you are over the kiai value at the exact moment when you are choosing an action, right after applying the raider penalty. Note that turning your board to the animal side will activate your kiai if you happen to be at your kiai value for the animal side.

1) I don’t understand how the answer to the question is no. When the Samurai board is turned over to its animal side wouldn’t the meeple again be placed on the spot exceeding the kiai value just like it was before the Samurai board was turned over to its animal side? If this is correct the answer to the above question should be yes (have to pass) if I am correctly understanding the question.

2) The last sentence of the above FAQ answer beginning with, “Note that turning.....:” In the example above how can turning over the Samuarai board activate the kiai if the meeple is again placed on the spot exceeding your kiai value when the board is turned over?
Thanks.
 
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Jonathan Meltzer
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Often, the Kiai value on the Animal side is higher than on the Human side of the card. So, if your attacks (the total of the raiders on the right side of your card) add to 12 (for instance), and the kiai value on the Human side is 10 and on the Animal side is 12, then you would exceed the Kiai on the Human side but be exactly at the Kiai value when the card is flipped to Animal side.
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Richard Hirschman
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Yes, I can see that in a general sense but I can't see how it applies to the example in the FAQ. Once you have exceeded your kiai value and you flip your Samurai to the animal side, I assume that your kiai value stays exceeded on your animal side but I am not sure. I'm still confused by the "official" answer in the FAQ.
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Michal Starek
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No matter what happens, your combat line counter ALWAYS has the figurine standing on the sum of your raiders (or on the flame, if the sum is higher than the highest number shown).
When you flip the board, you place the figurine onto the sum again, even though the kiai limit is higher than on the human side.

If you exceed the kiai, you burn the barricade and there's one more turn of all players, before you MUST pass. During that turn, they should do their best to either
1) Clean up your combat line, so you are below the limit again
2) if they can't, they should at least send you more raiders - the damage by you has been done and if you must pass, you should take as much cards with you, as possible.

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Richard Hirschman
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Thanks for the helpful answers. However I am still wondering why the answer to the last FAQ question in the instructions is no. Shouldn't it be yes? (See my first post.)
 
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Jonathan Meltzer
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rich10 wrote:
Thanks for the helpful answers. However I am still wondering why the answer to the last FAQ question in the instructions is no. Shouldn't it be yes? (See my first post.)


If you have not yet passed (if you have passed already, you are out of the round no matter what happens), and your total is past your Kiai value on the human side of the card, but the card is flipped before you have to make the decision to pass, then you set the meeple at the space on the animal side that corresponds to the total of the raiders on the right side of your card. On the animal side, this may NOT be past the Kiai value, so you are still in the round and do not need to pass.

Hope that helps...it is basically a rewording of what I said before, but maybe I said it better this time?
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Richard Hirschman
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Thanks for the clarification. I think I finally get it. What was confusing me: I thought I read in another post that if you exceeded your kiai value before your samurai is flipped to his animal side, your meeple has to remain in the position of exceeding your kiai value when the Samurai is flipped. Your view seems to make more sense in that when you flip your Samurai, your meeple then should be placed on the combat line to always reflect the total number of raiders in the combat line. This would then put your meeple in a position below the value of exceeding your kiai on the combat line on the Samurai's animal side.

 
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Jonathan Meltzer
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rich10 wrote:
Thanks for the clarification. I think I finally get it. What was confusing me: I thought I read in another post that if you exceeded your kiai value before your samurai is flipped to his animal side, your meeple has to remain in the position of exceeding your kiai value when the Samurai is flipped. Your view seems to make more sense in that when you flip your Samurai, your meeple then should be placed on the combat line to always reflect the total number of raiders in the combat line. This would then put your meeple in a position below the value of exceeding your kiai on the combat line on the Samurai's animal side.


The part that I bolded above DOES happen if you have already passed, because at that point you are out of the round regardless of your raider total. But, if you have not yet passed, then flipping the card could keep you from having to do so.

Happy to help.
 
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Richard Hirschman
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Jonathan,
I guess I'm still a bit confused about your last comment about the bold text. I thought if you already passed then your Samurai is not subject to penalties, etc. - basically you are out of the game for the rest of that round. So, could you please provide me with an example of when your meeple would remain on the position of exceeding your kiai value when you flip your samurai after you passed. I can't even envision a situation when you would flip your samurai if you already passed and are essentially out of the game for that round. I must be missing something very obvious.
Thanks again.
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Jonathan Meltzer
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You're right. I don't think there are any things that could cause you to flip your card after you have passed and are out of the round. My mistake.

So, the main thing to take from this is that if your Kiai value is exceeded on the Human side of the card, but the card is flipped BEFORE having to pass, you could have a value on the Animal side that is at or below your Kiai value, so you would not have to pass.
 
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Ken Newell
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Once you exceed your kiai value, you are Ko'ed and automatically pass.

How do you then take a wound at the start of your turn? Your turn had to already have started to exceed your kiai value to begin with.
 
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Jonathan Meltzer
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LFITQ wrote:
Once you exceed your kiai value, you are Ko'ed and automatically pass.

How do you then take a wound at the start of your turn? Your turn had to already have started to exceed your kiai value to begin with.


Incorrect. You make the DECISION to pass on your next turn, AFTER taking any Raider penalty at the start of that turn. Before that next turn, a teammate could do something that would eliminate a raider from your right side, and then you may not need to pass after all. If your Kiai value has been exceeded at the time that you decide whether to fight or pass, you must pass. THEN you are out of the round.
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Ken Newell
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Guess I was making the game harder than I needed to.
 
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Aaron Edwards
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Just in case this is still a question, I have had this come up many times in-game and would like to offer the following example:

Human Kanbei has 1 wound and his combat line currently adds up to 7 (his kiai value is 9). He decides to go for it and draws a value 3 raider with a wound penalty on the lower left. This total of 10 puts him over his kiai value, so he burns a barricade. Play proceeds around the table and his teammates are not able to help out his situation before it gets back to him. The first thing he must do before he can make any decisions is apply the battle penalty on the lower left of the last card in his battle line (which, remember, is a wound), so he takes a second wound, which causes his board to be flipped. The total of 10 in his battle line is no longer above his kiai value, so he is no longer required to pass. Hence, the explanation that you are only required to pass if your kiai value is exceeded at the exact moment you must make a decision.
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Nick Clinite
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Great example, Aaron.

I also want to point out, I am pretty sure all animal-spirits have a Kiai value that is exactly 3 higher than the human's Kiai value (so, Daisuke's 8 becomes 11, Kikuchiyo's 10 because 13, etc.)

Using that info, it is entirely possible to exceed your Kiai by 3, burn a barricade, take a wound next round, flip your board, and instantly activate your Kiai.
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