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Star Trek: Attack Wing» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Matter of Honor OP fleet--comments please rss

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Bob Estabrook
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Slightly inspired by JLin's suggestion in the Dominion fleets thread, and partially trying to build a MoH fleet from mostly if not entirely cards I have, I took JLin's 90 pt fleet:

"4th Division Battleship
Fleet Captain, Independent Federation
Gul Dukat
Unneccessary Bloodshed
Boheeka

Jem'Hadar Battlecruiser
Weyoun (discard prevention)
Remata'Klan
Shroud

89 points. The standard Dukat-Boheeka combo on 6-7 attack die, with the independent Fleet Captain mitigating out the movement problems of either the battleship or the battlecruiser. After the Battleship moves, it buffs the Battlecruiser with a free action off its bar; the battlecruiser would move and discard Remata'Klan on turns when it's in the firing range of 2 or more ships (so mostly on the joust) to give Weyoun a firing Captain Skill of 8 and +2 to your attack(bumping it to 7), giving you Target Lock a ship and then get a free battlestations from the 4th Division's movement. Generally a well rounded fleet that mainly suffers against multiple Borg but can still put up a fight. Suffers against fighter spam, potentially, however."

And I came up with a 120 version for MoH, which I'd love to get feedback on:

4th Division Battleship
Gul Dukat
Invaluable Advice
Boheeka
Glinn Daro
Shroud

Jem'Hadar Battlecruiser
Gul Danar
Fleet Captain (Indy Klingon)
Amat'Igan
Omet'Iklan
Kov (Vulcan, both for repair potential and for officer exchange bonus points)

Kraxon
Generic Captain
Follower of Khan (again, for officer exchange bonus points)

Currently 121 points, if I'm accounting for the office exchange special rule and the effect of the Fleet Captain correctly. Hat tip to the Space Dock app for helping me build this list.

Tactical thinking: since the MoH scenario limits movement (unless you don't care about picking up extra sub atomic bacteria tokens), I wanted to build a couple of very robust ships with enough actions to keep the bacteria in check and still blast opponents. Kraxon is a portable shield generator for the big dogs, and a small homage to my usual pure Cardassian squadron with a heavy dose of fighters. That build sounded terrible for an environment with hull-devouring bacteria. Depending on the outcome of the joust, I could see sitting in my big boats and waiting for the bacteria to destroy the other fleet. My only real concern is the maneuverability of the battleship, which will have a hard time with mines dumped in the center of the table and with getting back into combat post joust.

Comments and suggestions much appreciated.

 
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James Weidlich
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I'd try to find some points to stick Admiral Forrest on a ship, his fleet action will help with navigating.
 
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Derek B
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Forrest seconded

and Kenneth Dalby would save 2 points vs. Kov
 
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Steven Redfearn
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You're using Remataklan and Weyoun incorrectly in the first build. Weyoun gets disabled to prevent Remata from discarding, a disabled captain has a skill of 0, so you only get the +2 from Remata.
The shroud will work for him once though.
 
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Tom Coon
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For your second version:

If you have Kenneth Dalby from the Val Jean expansion grab him instead of Kov. He's a more flexible repair option and cheaper than Kov.

Then drop Follower of Khan from the Kraxon and stick Mirok on that ship. If either of your big guys are damaged by their initial SBT (the ones they start with) you'll be able to siphon the damage to Kraxon's shields and then repair that shield with Mirok.

Or, if only the Kraxon is damaged by his SBT you can repair that and get rid of his SBT in the same opening movement.

Of course I don't know if you have Mirok and Kenneth Dalby.

For that matter put Kenneth Dalby on the Battleship and Glinn Daro on the Kraxon. Mirok will count for the cross-faction bonus on the Kraxon and Dalby on the Battleship. If they survive. Furthermore, with the scenario rules Mirok only costs 2 points on the Kraxon and Dalby only costs 1 on the Battleship (after including your fleet captain cost reduction as well).


List Name

Resource: Fleet Captain Independent (Klingon) (5)

4th Division Battleship (36)
Gul Dukat (5)
Invaluable Advice (2)
Boheeka (1)
Kenneth Dalby (1)
Ship SP: 45

Kraxon (26)
Mirok (2)
Glinn Daro (2)
Ship SP: 30

Jem'Hadar Battle Cruiser (32)
Gul Danar (2)
FleetCaptain (0)
Omet'Iklan (4)
Amat'Igan (2)
Ship SP: 40

Total Build SP: 120

Generated by STAW Builder
http://www.dracossoftware.com/STAWHome.html

For that matter you could also swap out Amat'Igan for Hikaru Sulu since you've got the extra action economy already and that will give you another Fleet point bonus option. Or you swap out Omet'Iklan for Hikaru Sulu, have another 2 points to spare, better evasion and you can give yourself initiative.


 
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Steven Redfearn
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how about the indy fed captain and admiral forest to make those big ships move like fighters:

4th Division Battleship (36)
Gul Dukat (5)
Maxwell Forrest (6)
Amat'Igan (3)
Boheeka (2)
Total (52)

Jem'Hadar Battle Cruiser (32)
Fleet Captain: Independent (Federation) (5)
Miles O'Brien (4)
Independent (Federation) (5)
Total (41)

Kraxon (26)
Mirok (3)
Glinn Daro (3)
Total (32)

Fleet total: 125

Generated by Space Dock for Android
http://spacedockapp.org

And then subtract 5 points for the cross faction penalty.
 
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J Lin
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SMDMadCow wrote:
You're using Remataklan and Weyoun incorrectly in the first build. Weyoun gets disabled to prevent Remata from discarding, a disabled captain has a skill of 0, so you only get the +2 from Remata.
The shroud will work for him once though.


The idea is to use the Shroud the once for the skill 8, and then if you want to keep using it for skill 2 on the subsequent rounds.
 
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Bob Estabrook
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Thanks for the input, everyone. I think I can acquire or borrow Mirok and Dalby. And I've confirmed the 50pt/ship max will be in effect. The list now looks like this:

4th Division Battleship (36)
Gul Dukat (5)
Invaluable Advice (2)
Boheeka (1)
Glinn Daro (2)
Total (46)

Jem'Hadar Battle Cruiser (32)
Fleet Captain: Independent (Klingon) (5)
Gul Danar (2)
Amat'Igan (2)
Kenneth Dalby (2)
Omet'Iklan (4)
Independent (Klingon) (5)
Total (47)

Kraxon (26)
Mirok (3)
Total (29)

Fleet total: 122 (then adjust for officer exchange special rule for the MoH scenario)

Generated by Space Dock for Android
http://spacedockapp.org

I like the idea of Admiral Forest, but I don't see an easy place to come up with six points for him. Invaluable advice could go, but then I'd still need four more points, which means bye-bye to Omet or to both Amat and Daro. Since I'm fairly new I don't know how fleet actions work, so maybe I'm not appreciating how much of a boost the admiral would provide
 
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Steven Redfearn
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SeijiTataki wrote:
SMDMadCow wrote:
You're using Remataklan and Weyoun incorrectly in the first build. Weyoun gets disabled to prevent Remata from discarding, a disabled captain has a skill of 0, so you only get the +2 from Remata.
The shroud will work for him once though.


The idea is to use the Shroud the once for the skill 8, and then if you want to keep using it for skill 2 on the subsequent rounds.


The way it was written makes it seem hes always shooting at skill 8 with a disabled Weyoun.

I would personally swap to Weyoun 7, same points because of his crew discount. You get 2 rounds at skill 9, which I think is better than any rounds at skill 2 because the low skill will get your ship killed quickly since it will have to be in front of 2 enemies who will most likely have higher skill to shoot it first.
 
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J Lin
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SMDMadCow wrote:
SeijiTataki wrote:
SMDMadCow wrote:
You're using Remataklan and Weyoun incorrectly in the first build. Weyoun gets disabled to prevent Remata from discarding, a disabled captain has a skill of 0, so you only get the +2 from Remata.
The shroud will work for him once though.


The idea is to use the Shroud the once for the skill 8, and then if you want to keep using it for skill 2 on the subsequent rounds.


The way it was written makes it seem hes always shooting at skill 8 with a disabled Weyoun.

I would personally swap to Weyoun 7, same points because of his crew discount. You get 2 rounds at skill 9, which I think is better than any rounds at skill 2 because the low skill will get your ship killed quickly since it will have to be in front of 2 enemies who will most likely have higher skill to shoot it first.


That certainly works, too. The reason to take the disable Weyoun, though, is that you're still getting potential initiative if your opponent fielded generics and you can reliably stack the extra attack dice for the bigger beat stick.

There's a number of ways you can go about it, though, based on your individual preference which is one of the nice things about this game.
 
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Brian B.
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CavLtBob wrote:


I like the idea of Admiral Forest, but I don't see an easy place to come up with six points for him. Invaluable advice could go, but then I'd still need four more points, which means bye-bye to Omet or to both Amat and Daro. Since I'm fairly new I don't know how fleet actions work, so maybe I'm not appreciating how much of a boost the admiral would provide


Actually you can use the MoH discount on Admirals too, so you would get Admiral Forest for 3 points. (and any other mixed faction would give you the normal 1 pt faction penalty)

And remember that according to WORF, you get 5 points for *each* mixed faction crew/captain/admiral on each of your surviving ships. Mix 'em up if you got them, and good luck! (OP is a lot of fun)
 
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Brian Johnsen
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Maizrim wrote:
And remember that according to WORF, you get 5 points for *each* mixed faction crew/captain/admiral on each of your surviving ships. Mix 'em up if you got them, and good luck! (OP is a lot of fun)

Incorrect -- according to the scenario rules and WORF, you get a bonus 5FP if a surviving ship has any number of mixed faction crew/captain/admiral cards, and an additional 5FP for each crew/captain/admiral card DISCARDED by that ship. In the example referred to on WORF, the ship has a mixed faction captain remaining, and had discarded 2 crew -- that's how they came up with 15FP. If only one crew had been discarded (out of the 3 mixed faction cards) then the bonus would only be 10FP.

http://www.wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=42...
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Bob Estabrook
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Maizrim wrote:
CavLtBob wrote:


I like the idea of Admiral Forest, but I don't see an easy place to come up with six points for him. Invaluable advice could go, but then I'd still need four more points, which means bye-bye to Omet or to both Amat and Daro. Since I'm fairly new I don't know how fleet actions work, so maybe I'm not appreciating how much of a boost the admiral would provide


Actually you can use the MoH discount on Admirals too, so you would get Admiral Forest for 3 points. (and any other mixed faction would give you the normal 1 pt faction penalty)


OK,newbie brain, so please help me understand: 3, his regular cost, because normal faction penalty on admirals is doubling, but not in the MoH scenario?

Related, I don't know where to look for the rules on how a "fleet action" works, vs just a normal action text. Depending on this, 3 points sounds like a really good deal...
 
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Brian Johnsen
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CavLtBob wrote:
OK,newbie brain, so please help me understand: 3, his regular cost, because normal faction penalty on admirals is doubling, but not in the MoH scenario?

Related, I don't know where to look for the rules on how a "fleet action" works, vs just a normal action text. Depending on this, 3 points sounds like a really good deal...

The "Officer Exchange Program" section on page 1 of the scenario rules allows you to take one crew/captain/admiral per ship without paying its normal faction penalty. Because the normal faction penalty on an admiral is 3, you're better off choosing the admiral as your penalty-free card on a ship with both a cross-faction admiral and a cross-faction captain/crew in this scenario.

The Fleet Action rules are explained on the Admirals reference card that comes with any expansion pack that contains an admiral.
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Bob Estabrook
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Got it. Much appreciated!
 
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Brian B.
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MormegilND wrote:
Maizrim wrote:
And remember that according to WORF, you get 5 points for *each* mixed faction crew/captain/admiral on each of your surviving ships. Mix 'em up if you got them, and good luck! (OP is a lot of fun)

Incorrect -- according to the scenario rules and WORF, you get a bonus 5FP if a surviving ship has any number of mixed faction crew/captain/admiral cards, and an additional 5FP for each crew/captain/admiral card DISCARDED by that ship. In the example referred to on WORF, the ship has a mixed faction captain remaining, and had discarded 2 crew -- that's how they came up with 15FP. If only one crew had been discarded (out of the 3 mixed faction cards) then the bonus would only be 10FP.

http://www.wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=42...


I see the distinction now. My Lore/9 crew Enterprise would work well then since most would be discarded. We still scored it as +5 total for each ship in our OP, regardless of the number on the ship. (it had to have at least one)
 
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J Lin
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Lore does not work. You only score the points for an ability that requires the card to discard itself. Discarding a card via any other effect does not generate the extra points.
 
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Brian Johnsen
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SeijiTataki wrote:
Lore does not work. You only score the points for an ability that requires the card to discard itself. Discarding a card via any other effect does not generate the extra points.

According to the scenario rules, that's true. However, WORF ruled that discarding cross-faction cards for any reason will trigger the bonus.

http://www.wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=42...
 
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Bob Estabrook
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I wanted to say thanks to everyone who commented here, as the fleet performed very well. I took second place, losing a close one to Borg in the final round.

If anyone else has MoH coming up, I'd suggest this as a pretty strong fleet. My wins were almost as close as my loss, though, so don't assume it's super powerful. The Kraxon with Mirok is a godsend, though it died in both my wins and survived in my loss. Admiral Forrest is a smart play with the Jem'hadar ships, and I can't point to anything that didn't turn it useful at least once--well, Shroud was never used because fleets seemed to worry more about token control and laying mines than crew disruption.

If Anton is looking for insight on the scenario: sometimes the bacteria play a big role, sometimes not so much, but keeping the number of tokens down is necessary. In the final round, when the dice were hurting me more through SBTs than in the other rounds, fighting the bacteria and the Borg at the same time was too much.

Again, thanks very much for the input. If folks want to hear anything more about my experience, just let me know.
 
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