Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
6 Posts

Crown of Roses» Forums » Rules

Subject: Bluff ? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
wurd gorgo
France
flag msg tools
Hello,

On page 42 of the rules it is written:

"Do not forget the zero-value IP Markers to use for bluffing."

I don't understand. Where is the bluff since players secretly select any number of IP markers ?

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Bernatz
United States
Alexandria
Virginia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Secret in that context means hidden from other people, NOT hidden from the person doing the selection.

So, for example, the Lancaster player could hide his IP tokens under the table and select one to place. The Lancaster player could pick the exact token he wanted - a 0 value, a 1 value or maybe a 10 value. The York player would know that there was one token, but would have no idea of the value...

-K
co-developer, Crown of Roses
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Hammond
Canada
Ottawa
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
If each player simply selects their IP markers out of sight and simultaneously, what is the point of the zero marker? The rules state that the player hides the marker(s) in their hand and that they are simultaneously revealed. It isn't as if I can observe another player's stack of IP markers, see how many there are in it, and then respond to it. Selecting a zero marker or no marker (i.e., not bidding) is effectively the same thing in terms of its affect on the process.

This same observation was made in our gaming group.

Is there something missing from the process as written?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Bernatz
United States
Alexandria
Virginia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Some groups place their markers on the table.

Some groups hide them in their hands.

Some groups put them under cups.

The zero marker allows for all styles of play to achieve 'bluffing'.

-K
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stephen A. Cuyler
United States
Rochester
New York
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
In the context of the question, the zero marker is not the same as not placing a token. Not all groups us an "out-of-sight" method, and in some cases this is counter-productive, as it prevents bluffing. The bluff element is in there in case you want to convince an enemy that you are going after an office even when you aren't, and trick him into thinking that he needs to as well (by spending some of his hard earned IP that could be better used elsewhere), and for that you need a zero token. He can see that you picked up a token, but what if it's a 5 or 10 and he loses Chancellor or Admiral or Captain of Calais just because he didn't put anything towards it? It could be a bluff, but is it? Can he afford to take that chance? If you don't pick up a token, he'll choose the minimum he can and use the rest against you for a later office that you really do want. With a hidden system, you don't need them but they also are used to influence nobles during the turn using the same bluff idea.

-SAC
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
wurd gorgo
France
flag msg tools
Thanks

I will delete the word "secretly" from the sentence.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.