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Twilight Imperium (Third Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Invading Planets rss

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FRM Vicious
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Hey everyone,

about 2 1/2 weeks ago I sent a rules question to FFG.
So far I have not received an answer. Does anyone know
how long it normally takes for them to answer rule questions?


The question:

One of the public objectives states something like "I invaded a planet this round containing at least one enemy GF".
One of our players attacked an enemy planet containing a GF, with only a mercenary.
Since mercenaries can't claim planets we were unsure if the player had actually invaded the planet.

So does INVADE mean "I won an invasion combat" or does it mean "I got a planet by invasion"?

 
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David Damerell
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FRM_Vicious wrote:
One of the public objectives states something like "I invaded a planet this round containing at least one enemy GF".
One of our players attacked an enemy planet containing a GF, with only a mercenary.
Since mercenaries can't claim planets we were unsure if the player had actually invaded the planet.


I suggest one answer may be to ditch the silly rule about mercenaries not taking planets, which has a number of downsides of which you have just pointed out an additional one. FFG's answers to questions about that rule have suggested they don't like it either.

If you want a RAW-lawyerly answer, I suggest quoting the exact text on the public objective.
 
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Necessary Evil
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The card says successful invasion.

I don't think a merc can invade at all without GF assisting. If the merc is the only survivor of an invasion I believe the invasion is successful.

-M
 
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Jason Schmidt
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Related to this, mechanized units have been fuzzy for us. If I invade a planet that has only mechs defending, would I qualify for this objective?
 
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Scott Lewis
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For what it's worth, while I don't think it's been made "official" through a FAQ yet, it seems Corey intends to change the way Mercenaries work. I got from him awhile ago, when I was asking some questions about Mercenary wonkiness and a potentially contradictory ruling he had made on something. This is what it said:

Corey K wrote:
I honestly think that the Rulebook/FAQ is incorrect. The whole idea of a planet reverting to neutral if you have only a mercenary there is odd, especially if you can voluntarily retreat all ground forces from a planet and still retain control of it. I really think that players should be able to establish control of the planet instead of it reverting to neutral.

Now I have not had time to update the FAQ yet, and this may have unseen ramifications, but this is a new ruling that I intending to make.


Take that for what it's worth, but it may be easier just to treat this as somewhat "official" now and just take away that kind of arbitrary rule, and things become MUCH cleaner
 
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Scott Lewis
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schmidtjas wrote:
Related to this, mechanized units have been fuzzy for us. If I invade a planet that has only mechs defending, would I qualify for this objective?

I would say no - while MU's can conquer planets, the rules are pretty clear that cards which refer specifically to Ground Forces do NOT apply to MUs.

Thematically I think a house rule on this matter would make sense, but unless something changes officially, I would say rules-as-written say no.
 
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FRM Vicious
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sigmazero13 wrote:
schmidtjas wrote:
Related to this, mechanized units have been fuzzy for us. If I invade a planet that has only mechs defending, would I qualify for this objective?

I would say no - while MU's can conquer planets, the rules are pretty clear that cards which refer specifically to Ground Forces do NOT apply to MUs.

Thematically I think a house rule on this matter would make sense, but unless something changes officially, I would say rules-as-written say no.



In the FAQ it is stated that MUs count as GF for Invading. Additionally POs are not listed in the things that don't concern MUs. So one could argue, that if invading means Invasion Combat they count as GFs for the Invasion and therefore for the PO.



FAQ
Q: How do Mechanized Units work in regards to cards and
abilities referring to Ground Forces?
A: Mechanized Units are treated as Ground Forces in regards
to invading and controlling planets only, this includes
cards and effects which would revert a planet to neutral if
no Ground Forces are present. They participate in invasion
combat but are immune to all abilities that refer to Ground
Forces, such as Action Cards, technologies, Domain Counters,
bombardments, PDS fire, and Leaders.
 
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Scott Lewis
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To me, that FAQ question is just saying that MU's only count as GFs for the purpose of invading and controlling planets - IE, they can invade on their own as if they were GFs, and can control planets just like GFs.

I don't think it addresses whether they count as GFs for invasion purposes at all. If they did, you could make the same argument that Dacxive Animators would work on MU's, since that happens as part of "invasion".
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FRM Vicious
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Well I see it like this:


Public Objective: Invade a planet containing at least one enemy GF

Did you invade a planet this turn? - Yes I did.
Was this planet controlled by at least one enemy GF? - MUs count as GFs for controlling planets so yes.
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Scott Lewis
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Again, using that same logic, though:

Dacxive Animators: If you win an Invasion Combat, roll once for every Ground Force unit killed (yours and your opponent's). For every roll of 6+, place one Ground Force unit on the planet from your reinforcements.


Did you win the invasion combat? Yes
Did you kill a GF? If MUs count for GFs for invading, then yes.



If you interpret it that way for the objective, you have to do it the same for Dacxive Animators, and I'm 100% sure it does NOT apply in that case.


Again, the FAQ is mostly just letting you know that MU's can invade and control planets on their own. I do not think it was intended to specify that they are considered GFs for any purpose where a card refers to GFs.

That said, I'll send a rules question to FFG to get an official answer
 
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FRM Vicious
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I think the difference to Daxive Animator and other technologies is that in the FAQ they explicitly say that MUs are immune to all technologies.

Quote:
They participate in invasion
combat but are immune to all abilities that refer to Ground
Forces, such as Action Cards, technologies, Domain Counters,
bombardments, PDS fire, and Leaders.


But as so often, all we can do is guess
 
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Scott Lewis
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FRM_Vicious wrote:
I think the difference to Daxive Animator and other technologies is that in the FAQ they explicitly say that MUs are immune to all technologies.

Except Dacxive isn't affecting the MU directly, it's affecting the invader in this case. So the MU's aren't affected by it.

They use very similar wording as the Objectives, so to me it's being arbitrary to say it applies to one but not the other.
 
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While RAW I don't think you get to claim the objective, I think it makes much more sense if you're allowed to. I mean, you did something which is objectively harder.
We've always played that it counts, even if it's not quite supported in the rules.
 
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FRM Vicious
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In your experience, how long does it normally take to receive an answer from ffg?
 
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Scott Lewis
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It can take a couple weeks. I think the designers batch them up and then respond to a bunch all at once. So it may just depend on when you send vs when they sit down to answer rules questions.
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FRM Vicious
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Ok, thank you.
 
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Scott Lewis
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Here's what I got back from Corey:

Quote:
The main reason the FAQ ruling exists is so that Mechanized Units cannot benefit from technology and action cards that specifically affect ground forces (such as Dacxive Animators).

As written, the objective you quoted below cannot be fulfilled if the world only contains mechanized units. However, I feel that this card should be errataed to apply to either ground forces or mechanized units.

So, currently as-written, MUs don't count.

However, it sounds like Corey may add something to the FAQ to change this sometime, and obviously a house rule in the meantime to support it would be in line with Corey's thoughts, too.
 
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Indio Shepard
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Actually, this was covered specifically by Corey previously, as linked in the BGG FAQ

http://boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/Twilight_Imperium_FAQ#toc...

Q: Are Public Objectives that require taking control of planets that contain at least one opposing Ground Force also attainable by taking control of a planet that only contains a Mechanized Unit? (thread)
A: (Corey, FFG, to Kristobal) Yes.
 
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Scott Lewis
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Indio wrote:
Actually, this was covered specifically by Corey previously, as linked in the BGG FAQ

http://boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/Twilight_Imperium_FAQ#toc...

Q: Are Public Objectives that require taking control of planets that contain at least one opposing Ground Force also attainable by taking control of a planet that only contains a Mechanized Unit? (thread)
A: (Corey, FFG, to Kristobal) Yes.

The answer I just got from him indicates otherwise.

Corey's answer in the other thread were very terse. My question went into more detail than Kristobal's did as to why as-written it wouldn't, and as the quote above indicates, Corey does seem to agree that "as written", they don't qualify, but that he supports an errata otherwise.

I have no problem using that house rule, as it's obviously supported by the designer.
 
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