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1846: The Race for the Midwest» Forums » General

Subject: What setup to order from DTG??? rss

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Joel Gabelman
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Thinking about picking this up, but there are so many options:
* Mounted or unmounted
* Tiles that are laminated, single thick, double thick
* Charters 5mil, uncut, etc...

What's the best setup taking into account:
1) I don't need money
2) I don't want to spend the max amount - I want the best "bang for buck". I really don't need responses that say: "For $120 it IS the best bang for buck!) I think most of you know what I mean. As an example, I WOULD get a box, but I would NOT spend the extra $ for a custom box.

So what's the best setup? It's a bit confusing! Note: this would be my first 18xx purchase.

Thanks!

 
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Michael Carter
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Just selecting "Ready to Play" is a pretty good choice for a new buyer.
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Kyle Nauman
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I would suggest if you just want this game to order it from Golden Spike Games to skip the long line waiting for games from DTG. Also place a order in at DTG to get in line for another game. You can cancel or change that order when your games are up for being built.
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Jason B
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My advice would be to see if anyone is trading it and ask them to sell it to you. That's how I got my copy. My order of 1846 at DTG is now 4 years old.
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Tyler McLaughlin
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Quad fold Map and custom box
Cut and laminate the Tiles and Certs
No money
Cut the charters yourself.
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Mark G.
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Jasonbartfast wrote:
My advice would be to see if anyone is trading it and ask them to sell it to you. That's how I got my copy. My order of 1846 at DTG is now 4 years old.


If you don't mind paying a bit of a premium, 1846 is available without much wait from Golden Spike Games.

http://www.goldenspikegames.com/

There is only one configuration available from GS: Basically Ready-to-Play.

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Mark G.
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e.e.goings wrote:
Quad fold Map and custom box
Cut and laminate the Tiles and Certs
No money
Cut the charters yourself.


This is the configuration I prefer when I order from DTG. I have laminated my own stuff in the past, but DTG's lamination is better, and cutting the track tiles is a pain.
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Kevin Ice
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elmsley4 wrote:
Thinking about picking this up, but there are so many options:
* Mounted or unmounted
* Tiles that are laminated, single thick, double thick
* Charters 5mil, uncut, etc...

What's the best setup taking into account:
1) I don't need money
2) I don't want to spend the max amount - I want the best "bang for buck". I really don't need responses that say: "For $120 it IS the best bang for buck!) I think most of you know what I mean. As an example, I WOULD get a box, but I would NOT spend the extra $ for a custom box.

So what's the best setup? It's a bit confusing! Note: this would be my first 18xx purchase.

Thanks!



At any rate you can put down whatever and then think about it for five years. Chances are pretty good you play a DTG in the next half decade so you'll know first hand what you want.
 
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Bob Wooster
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knauman wrote:
I would suggest if you just want this game to order it from Golden Spike Games to skip the long line waiting for games from DTG. Also place a order in at DTG to get in line for another game. You can cancel or change that order when your games are up for being built.


This is definitely the way to go. I had been waiting in the DTG for over a year or so, and took advantage of the Golden Spike Games offer when it became available. The component quality and gameplay are top-notch!
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Eric Flood
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elmsley4 wrote:
What's the best setup taking into account:
1) I don't need money
2) I don't want to spend the max amount - I want the best "bang for buck". I really don't need responses that say: "For $120 it IS the best bang for buck!) I think most of you know what I mean. As an example, I WOULD get a box, but I would NOT spend the extra $ for a custom box.

So what's the best setup? It's a bit confusing! Note: this would be my first 18xx purchase.

Thanks!


First of all, trust me, you want Ready to Play (remove money after selecting). I was doubtful at first until I saw the final production value.

Second, don't order until you come by and check out my copies. I promise you'll understand once you look at the components in person, as well as the differences between board styles etc. I'll show you both full DTG production values...and older 18xx printing styles.

Third, there's a "new" priority list where you can receive your order within a week or two for a significant premium, but the standard model has been, until a few months ago, to be put upon a queue. At first the queue was a few months, but as 18xx has grown in popularity, that queue has grown to *years*.


The general history here is that 18xx has had an extremely small following until the past seven years or so. The "smaller" games which didn't receive a relatively large production run were made by hand and components were often left to be cut by the players themselves. The handmade productions just weren't going to sell enough copies to justify buying larger production equipment. Many of these smaller individuals came and went. It wasn't until DTG came along that players were treated to a more "production quality" experience with these smaller titles, due to John Tamplin's willingness to spend a rather large sum of money to be able to provide that to customers. I think he finally broke even on that after ten years of printing games.

Some customers, particularly in the 18xx world, are curmudgeonly and have very specific preferences about how their components should be, which is why DTG offers the choice.

New players are generally going to prefer the "Ready to Play" scenario and not regret the small increase in cost.
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Edward Uhler
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e.e.goings wrote:
Quad fold Map and custom box
Cut and laminate the Tiles and Certs
No money
Cut the charters yourself.


Tyler, why the "Cut the Charters yourself" route? Are they laminated and you cut thru the lamination or unlaminated, but everything else is?

Thanks.
 
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JR
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eapeas wrote:
e.e.goings wrote:
Quad fold Map and custom box
Cut and laminate the Tiles and Certs
No money
Cut the charters yourself.


Tyler, why the "Cut the Charters yourself" route? Are they laminated and you cut thru the lamination or unlaminated, but everything else is?

Thanks.


You save a few dollars by spending your own time (rather than John's) performing the relatively simple but menial task of cutting charters. Charters are reasonable to self-cut (if you have the tools) because they require far fewer cuts than shares and only require perpendicular cuts unlike a sheet of tiles. Tiles and shares are cut by John with a die and I highly recommend this. You CAN cut the charters yourself, but I found the money saved was so meagre that I'd prefer to just have John do it and not risk getting a crooked edge cut myself and having it bother me for eternity.
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Edward Uhler
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jrebelo wrote:
eapeas wrote:
e.e.goings wrote:
Quad fold Map and custom box
Cut and laminate the Tiles and Certs
No money
Cut the charters yourself.


Tyler, why the "Cut the Charters yourself" route? Are they laminated and you cut thru the lamination or unlaminated, but everything else is?

Thanks.


You save a few dollars by spending your own time (rather than John's) performing the relatively simple but menial task of cutting charters. Charters are reasonable to self-cut (if you have the tools) because they require far fewer cuts than shares and only require perpendicular cuts unlike a sheet of tiles. Tiles and shares are cut by John with a die and I highly recommend this. You CAN cut the charters yourself, but I found the money saved was so meagre that I'd prefer to just have John do it and not risk getting a crooked edge cut myself and having it bother me for eternity.


Thanks, JR. I know what all it entails (I have DTG games), I just meant SPECIFICALLY re: Charters. I guess what you said makes sense re: they are just big rectangles and easy cuts. Myself, I agree w/ you in that game-ready sans money is probably the ideal way to go.
 
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Mark G.
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jrebelo wrote:
eapeas wrote:
e.e.goings wrote:
Quad fold Map and custom box
Cut and laminate the Tiles and Certs
No money
Cut the charters yourself.


Tyler, why the "Cut the Charters yourself" route? Are they laminated and you cut thru the lamination or unlaminated, but everything else is?

Thanks.


You save a few dollars by spending your own time (rather than John's) performing the relatively simple but menial task of cutting charters. Charters are reasonable to self-cut (if you have the tools) because they require far fewer cuts than shares and only require perpendicular cuts unlike a sheet of tiles. Tiles and shares are cut by John with a die and I highly recommend this. You CAN cut the charters yourself, but I found the money saved was so meagre that I'd prefer to just have John do it and not risk getting a crooked edge cut myself and having it bother me for eternity.


I made the mistake of ordering 1817 with charters and certs uncut and un-laminated. That took some serious time to complete! I did it, I got a feeling of accomplishment, I saved some dough, but was it worth it? Probably not.
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Michael Carter
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The wait for 1846 is really short right now at Golden Spike. I put in my order and it was shipped within three days when I ordered at the start of March.
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JR
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MidLifeDelta wrote:
jrebelo wrote:
eapeas wrote:
e.e.goings wrote:
Quad fold Map and custom box
Cut and laminate the Tiles and Certs
No money
Cut the charters yourself.


Tyler, why the "Cut the Charters yourself" route? Are they laminated and you cut thru the lamination or unlaminated, but everything else is?

Thanks.


You save a few dollars by spending your own time (rather than John's) performing the relatively simple but menial task of cutting charters. Charters are reasonable to self-cut (if you have the tools) because they require far fewer cuts than shares and only require perpendicular cuts unlike a sheet of tiles. Tiles and shares are cut by John with a die and I highly recommend this. You CAN cut the charters yourself, but I found the money saved was so meagre that I'd prefer to just have John do it and not risk getting a crooked edge cut myself and having it bother me for eternity.


I made the mistake of ordering 1817 with charters and certs uncut and un-laminated. That took some serious time to complete! I did it, I got a feeling of accomplishment, I saved some dough, but was it worth it? Probably not.


Were you able to locate satin lamination, though, or did you have to use clear? I have laminated my own home-made stuff (like 1825/1830 charters) and really find the standard consumer-available lamination to be terrible compared to what John uses (as well as Scott & Jeff).
 
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Dave Berry
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First, as other people have said, if you want the game within a period of a few weeks as opposed to a few years, you will have to pay the premium price.

If you do want to wait and you are looking to save money, there are two sorts of trade-offs.

One is that you can opt for the old-style map and a box to fit, which will be cheaper than the quad-fold board and corresponding box. The old-style map is perfectly playable. I prefer the look of the quad-fold board but if you want to save money the old-style is certainly usable.

The other is that you can do some of the laminating, cutting or sticking yourself. As others have said, DTG lamination is a better quality than the average print store. Their die-cut tiles and certificates are better than I can manage; you might be better at this than I am, or you might not care. I always opt for DTG lamination and cutting. (Exception: I prefer the double-thick unlaminated tiles, for no particular reason except that is what I am used to. I think most people choose the laminated tiles).

The only money-saving option I choose is to buy the tokens unmounted. Actually, these days I do this not to save money but because I buy coloured tokens from elsewhere and stick the stickers onto those. This actually costs more but IMO looks better. Still, if you want to save money, sticking the tokens yourself is definitely a viable option.

I believe some people do buy the bare bones kits. If you don't laminate them and cut them out yourself, you will save a fair amount of money, at the cost of your time and ending up with a lesser quality product. You will still end up with a playable game.
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JR
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daveberry wrote:
One is that you can opt for the old-style map and a box to fit, which will be cheaper than the quad-fold board and corresponding box. The old-style map is perfectly playable. I prefer the look of the quad-fold board but if you want to save money the old-style is certainly usable.


Beyond just looking nicer, the quad-fold has very good functional advantages over the previous foam core boards. Specifically, the quad-folds (at least all of the ones I own) incorporate various elements into one board (map plus stock market and IPO, for instance) and so a map that would come in 2 (or more) pieces in previous print runs would now be a single, connected board that won't slide apart down the centre edge and cause tiles to get out of kilter. Additionally, the added weight of the map and having a less slick underside allows the quad-fold boards to sit nicely in place on a table where the foam maps have a tendency to very easily move around on a smooth surface. Also, the boxes for the quad-folds are more expensive, but they are VERY nice boxes. Very heavy-duty and will survive a lifetime of shelf life no matter how you want to stack them. The previous boxes used were not nearly as durable.
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J C Lawrence
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Conversely, I prefer the pouchboard boards because they don't warp/stay flat and are lighter in weight.
 
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JR
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I have pouchboard DTG maps which are the opposite of flat and instead have a slight concave/convex to them (depending on your POV) and so they enjoy spinning around like a top when bumped slightly. A piece of rubberized cupboard liner works well for this, but it's still a work-around. I find the weight of the quad boards to be a plus, not a minus (granted, I am never toting 20 of them with me on a plane trip).

I've never had issues with any sort of warping with the mounted quad-folds. The one issue I have observed was some fairly noticeable bubbling in one of my quad-fold mounting jobs, but I showed it to John and he identified that it was one of the earliest ones done before the process was as refined as it is now and he's going to replace it with my next DTG order.
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J C Lawrence
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jrebelo wrote:
I have pouchboard DTG maps which are the opposite of flat and instead have a slight concave/convex to them (depending on your POV) and so they enjoy spinning around like a top when bumped slightly.


Aye. I suspect that became more common when John's source of board lamination dried up. All (almost all?) of my boards are laminated on both sides and that may be why I don't have that problem.

Quote:
The one issue I have observed was some fairly noticeable bubbling in one of my quad-fold mounting jobs, but I showed it to John and he identified that it was one of the earliest ones done before the process was as refined as it is now and he's going to replace it with my next DTG order.


I was more concerned with the significant black gutter between map sheets in early quad-folds, but that was rapidly addressed and is no longer a concern.

My absolute favourite maps (in terms of production technique) remain the hard laminated maps made by Marflow Games and Double-O Games in the early days:

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Jasonbartfast wrote:
My advice would be to see if anyone is trading it and ask them to sell it to you. That's how I got my copy. My order of 1846 at DTG is now 4 years old.


At DTG's website it now says 7-11 months. That's completely wrong in other words? Just ordered it with them yesterday
 
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Roel van der Hoorn
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Tigrillo wrote:
At DTG's website it now says 7-11 months. That's completely wrong in other words?


Lets just say there's a good chance it will take longer than that. Whether you find that 'completely wrong' is up to you.
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Edward Uhler
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Tigrillo wrote:
Jasonbartfast wrote:
My advice would be to see if anyone is trading it and ask them to sell it to you. That's how I got my copy. My order of 1846 at DTG is now 4 years old.


At DTG's website it now says 7-11 months. That's completely wrong in other words? Just ordered it with them yesterday


Some folks have been waiting for 3-4 years.
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Morten K
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Could someone please tell me why we do this instead of just ordering it from Golden Spike? What's the difference between the two versions?
 
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