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Subject: kickplaythroughs...? rss

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Sergei V
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Hello Richard!
I've noticed that recently your focus somewhat shifted towards kickstarter games, which I am sure is very valuable for hundreds of your subscribers, but I'd like to know whether it is a new trend and direction of your channel or it is just a coincidence?

Thanks in advance.
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Steve Duff
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verhoven wrote:
Hello Richard!
I've noticed that recently your focus somewhat shifted towards kickstarter games, which I am sure is very valuable for hundreds of your subscribers, but I'd like to know whether it is a new trend and direction of your channel or it is just a coincidence?

Thanks in advance.


Heh. I nearly started an 'enough with the kickstarters already' thread myself.

It's just folks trying to piggy back off Richard's success in order to pitch their wares, is that what the viewers are wanting?

The kickstarter videos have zero interest for me.
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Scott Nelson
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do Lignum, is all I have to say. That is a "KS"esque game I would like to see ranthrough.
 
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Shanda Hoover
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Conversely, Kickstarter videos are the runthroughs that I have the most interest in. Richard only does previews of Kickstarter games that he actually likes, so they best represent his own tastes as compared with many of the runthroughs he does these days that are being done "by request" and aren't really his or Jen's cup of tea.

I also appreciate the timeliness of the Kickstarter videos because they often alert me to look into a game I wasn't aware of or help me decide to back a game I was aware of, but not sure about backing.

I find them hugely helpful.

I think the reason that he has done so many lately is because there are just a lot of new games up on Kickstarter right now. It will probably taper off soon, it isn't crazy like this on Kickstarter all of the time. I went through over a month at the beginning of the year when I wasn't tracking anything and then suddenly it just exploded.
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Neil Blaiberg
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Yeah sometimes a play through video is really helpful in selling a KS - and I trust Richard to be impartial.

I may not always agree with his tastes, but at least I can see how a game is played - far more useful than the KS video itself
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Richard Ham
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verhoven wrote:
Hello Richard!
I've noticed that recently your focus somewhat shifted towards kickstarter games, which I am sure is very valuable for hundreds of your subscribers, but I'd like to know whether it is a new trend and direction of your channel or it is just a coincidence?

It's just a reflection of the ebb and flow of boardgame releases throughout the year. In months where there aren't a lot of retail releases, more KS projects tend to get started, so I tend to cover more KS games. In months where KS slows down and retail releases pick up, the balance switches the other way (pretty much from August-Jan).

Looking at the forest instead of the trees, I do about 1 KS video for every 4 or 5 retail release videos. But I don't even look at it that way, because if you wait long enough, eventually a KS video I do will actually be for a retail game - you can watch the vid for Burgle Bros today, and it's a KS video. Or you can watch it 8 months from now, and it's a vid for a game available at retail. For this reason, I tend to think my KS videos are about 300% more valuable on the whole than retail videos, because they do double duty.

Also, when a game is on KS, there's often very little information about it other than the sales pitch, so I think my videos are generally more useful for people trying to make decisions (especially since people should ignore my personal opinion about the game and draw their own conclusions from the runthrough itself). Once a game has gone to retail, it's got a lot more coverage, so even if I don't cover it, there's still a lot you can learn about it from user reviews, other videos, friends who might have it, playing at conventions, etc.
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Janez Lužar
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UnknownParkerBrother wrote:
verhoven wrote:
Hello Richard!
I've noticed that recently your focus somewhat shifted towards kickstarter games, which I am sure is very valuable for hundreds of your subscribers, but I'd like to know whether it is a new trend and direction of your channel or it is just a coincidence?

Thanks in advance.


Heh. I nearly started an 'enough with the kickstarters already' thread myself.

It's just folks trying to piggy back off Richard's success in order to pitch their wares, is that what the viewers are wanting?

The kickstarter videos have zero interest for me.


I must agree with Steve on this one. Don't get me wrong I really appreciate Richards work and a big thanks for all the games I have bought because of his runthroughs. But I personally don't care for kickstarter for couple of reasons. I think kickstarter games aren't enough playtested and polished. Also the price (for non us residents) are mostly to high because of the delivery costs.

I really miss old days when Richard did the runthroughs for (new) already published games that you can go out and buy and not wait for them for a year to be published. I guess there is some truth in 'piggy backin', the kickstarter games is easier to get free than major releases.

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bort
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Rahdos runthru of kickstarters is often the best look we can get at it, so I like to see them before I think about backing them.
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Karthik Setty
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IMHO Richard is releasing videos these days much more frequently than before. He is doing the KS games in addition to rather than instead of other games. It is anyway a lean period for new game releases so it is a good time for it. Watching for the last couple of years there seems to be a pattern for this.

EDIT: "Ninja'd" by Richard.
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Richard Ham
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joey5513 wrote:
I must agree with Steve on this one. Don't get me wrong I really appreciate Richards work and a big thanks for all the games I have bought because of his runthroughs. But I personally don't care for kickstarter for couple of reasons. I think kickstarter games aren't enough playtested and polished. Also the price (for non us residents) are mostly to high because of the delivery costs.

All the more reason for me to cover them, so people can see what they're getting, since they present a greater gamble to consumers...

TBH though, I don't really buy into the "KS games are inherently crap, only games from established publishers can be trusted to be good". I play *A LOT* of KS games, and I play *A LOT* of established publisher games, and I think there's plenty of good and plenty of bad in both

Quote:
I really miss old days when Richard did the runthroughs for (new) already published games that you can go out and buy and not wait for them for a year to be published.

Games like Waggle Dance, Fidelitas, Institute of Magical Arts, Galaxy of Trian, Yardmaster, Paydirt, Assault on Doomrock, Progress, Epic Resort, Hoyuk, Viticulture, Galaxy Defenders, etc. etc... these are all games you can buy at retail right now. My KS runthroughs for them are just as useful for you, considering purchasing them today, as they were for others 8-12 months ago, when they were considering them for KS backing...
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Gergo Tothmihaly
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Yay for KS runthroughs! Richard's videos helped me back/not back these, and are very valuable.
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Janez Lužar
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rahdo wrote:


TBH though, I don't really buy into the "KS games are inherently crap, only games from established publishers can be trusted to be good". I play *A LOT* of KS games, and I play *A LOT* of established publisher games, and I think there's plenty of good and plenty of bad in both


I will use yours 'agree to disagree' here. I didn't say KS games are crap, they just could be so much better if polished and play tested by professionals. By the way how many KS games are in your top 50? I counted one (1) - Sos Titanic (and even this one got some points because of your solitaire plays with your dad).

Still love your videos. This is more of my disappointment with KS. I guess I'm in minority on this one because I rather have less games published and that really good ones. I think KS is pushing board games in wrong direction - too many unfinished games that had a big potential to be great if proper developed.

 
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Richard Ham
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joey5513 wrote:
By the way how many KS games are in your top 50? I counted one (1) - Sos Titanic (and even this one got some points because of your solitaire plays with your dad).

As I said in the video for this, I'd rate SOS Titantic super high regardless of my background. But even still, AFAIK this wasn't a KS game.

I just checked, and in my top 50, there are 8 games that have been kickstarted actually.

Quote:
Still love your videos. This is more of my disappointment with KS. I guess I'm in minority on this one because I rather have less games published and that really good ones. I think KS is pushing board games in wrong direction - too many unfinished games that had a big potential to be great if proper developed.

My point was that there are plenty of games that have been through "proper development" which aren't any better than plenty of games on KS which have not been through "proper development". Established publisher route to market is not a guarantee of high quality, any more than KS is a guarantee of low quality.

Still, I'm totally cool with agreeing to disagree
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Janez Lužar
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rahdo wrote:

I just checked, and in my top 50, there are 8 games that have been kickstarted actually.



Which 8? I didn't count the KS projects from Queen games or CGE and established designers (Lacerda, Feld). With this ones you know they will be proper developed. This games would be published KS or not. How many games from first one designers that were KS projects are in your top 100,
(Games like Waggle Dance, Fidelitas, Institute of Magical Arts, Galaxy of Trian, Yardmaster, Paydirt, Assault on Doomrock, Progress, Epic Resort, Hoyuk, Viticulture, Galaxy Defenders, etc. etc... Two made it in your top 100 - 87&89)

I won't be bothering you no more since I'm disappointed in flood of KS undeveloped games not in you. I guess I just wanted that feeling back when I was watching your videos 'Wow this game looks so good I must get this game', now it's mostly 'meh another KS I'll pass'. My wallet says thanks though. Sry.
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Kim Williams
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I'm another person who's hugely appreciative of the Kickstarter videos that Richard does. It can feel pretty risky backing a Kickstarter game, but at least if I've watched a Rahdo run through I feel like I really understand how the game plays, and can evaluate whether we'll enjoy it.

I think there's a perfect mix of Kickstarter games and non-Kickstarter games.

Keep up the fantastic work, Richard, you really are helping out so many gamers
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joey5513 wrote:
rahdo wrote:


TBH though, I don't really buy into the "KS games are inherently crap, only games from established publishers can be trusted to be good". I play *A LOT* of KS games, and I play *A LOT* of established publisher games, and I think there's plenty of good and plenty of bad in both


I will use yours 'agree to disagree' here. I didn't say KS games are crap, they just could be so much better if polished and play tested by professionals. By the way how many KS games are in your top 50? I counted one (1) - Sos Titanic (and even this one got some points because of your solitaire plays with your dad).

Still love your videos. This is more of my disappointment with KS. I guess I'm in minority on this one because I rather have less games published and that really good ones. I think KS is pushing board games in wrong direction - too many unfinished games that had a big potential to be great if proper developed.



Do you have some examples of games that were kickstarted and should have been playtested more in advance?
My experience is, that there are at least as many really good KS games by small companies as by established companies (through KS or regular retail). For example, Queen Games' Dark Darker Darkest was a complete fiasco in my opinion, while Zombicide, Omen: Reign of War, Canterbury, Shipwrights of the North Sea and dozens of other games I backed are a complete blast for me and my friends.

So, I am really happy about Rahdo's reviews for KS projects. Often enough when I look at a project and I see one of Rahdo's Runthroughs, I decide to back because I am pretty sure that I will like the game.

@Richard
Please continue your outstanding (KS) reviews. I can't praise you loud enough (even though my wallet is cursing without end...)
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Richard Ham
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joey5513 wrote:
Which 8? I didn't count the KS projects from Queen games or CGE and established designers (Lacerda, Feld).

I did, because to me, it doesn't matter whether a designer or publisher is established or not - everyone has the potential to make a great, solid, well tuned and balanced game. That has nothing to do with Kickstarter as a distribution platform.

Quote:
My wallet says thanks though. Sry.

Then everyone wins!
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Marcus Boyce
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After Convention Season Rhado will be back to doing more traditionally released games. I don't mind the KS ones but prefer retail ones (as I am done with Kickstarter for reasons) but the KS ones do have the advantage of showing what may be coming up at retail.

I rapidly switch off after hearing the words co-op though. I really don't like co-op games.
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蓝魔
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lordsplodge wrote:
I rapidly switch off after hearing the words co-op though. I really don't like co-op games.


+1
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Max Hansen
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Hi there Richard.
One question that no one has asked is are your previews "Paid" previews?
Thanks
 
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steven smolders
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On the other hand we have to vote for games that will get a runtrough, so plenty games don't make the cut even if someone voted for them.

Now for KS games we don't get to vote for but yet they will be covered no matter what.

If you do less KS playtrought you have more time to cover games on your voting list, even the games who don't get enough votes for the month.

Not saying some KS runtroughs weren't helpfull and turned out to be good games but alot of them where not that interseting.
 
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mathewsdad wrote:
Hi there Richard.
One question that no one has asked is are your previews "Paid" previews?
Thanks


It is open knowledge that Rahdo gets zero money for his previews.

That's part of the reason his opinions on these games can be so valuable :-)
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J Young
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rahdo wrote:
I did, because to me, it doesn't matter whether a designer or publisher is established or not - everyone has the potential to make a great, solid, well tuned and balanced game. That has nothing to do with Kickstarter as a distribution platform


Agreed, but my biggest concern with KS games are those where the rules tweaks seem to be taking place during the course of the campaign. Or KS projects where backers seem to be wielding much more influence over the final design of the game...so much so that the final product looks or feels much different than when the project first posted (sorry, can't remember any examples off the top of my head).

I seem to prefer the more streamlined projects where things don't get crazy with exclusives, stretch goals, or add-ons.

I do believe there are still good games being published via KS, and I appreciate you helping us by making it easier to parse them out.
 
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Richard Ham
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wolverine1977 wrote:
Not saying some KS runtroughs weren't helpfull and turned out to be good games but alot of them where not that interseting.

Well, maybe they werne't as interesting to you, but I don't notice a real drop in the number of viewers I have on KS vs non-KS games, so someone must be finding them interesting!

Jefferoni wrote:
my biggest concern with KS games are those where the rules tweaks seem to be taking place during the course of the campaign.

Well, the reality is that any game in development is undergoing tweaks right up to the ship date. The only difference with KS campaigns is that you have visiblity of the rules 6 months to a year before the game ships, so you're seeing things much earlier than you would normally. If Lookout Games has published the rules for Agricola 10 months before the game shipped for all to see (as is the case with most KS games) you woul have seen plenty of tweaking going on as well!

Quote:
Or KS projects where backers seem to be wielding much more influence over the final design of the game...so much so that the final product looks or feels much different than when the project first posted (sorry, can't remember any examples off the top of my head).

One example I can think of is Artipia's Archon: Glory & Machination, where backer worries convinced the publisher to change the background color of the game board. This was definitely a mistake (IMO) as it slightly hurt the playability of the game, but I wouldn't say it ruined the game or anything.

The simple fact of the matter is that when you're seeing a game on KS, it's most of the time still a game in development, becuase it's much earlier in the dev cycle that we're learning details. So tester feedback can still lead to changed, and often, backer feedback can too. I don't see this as a problem for the most part, becuase it simply means that KS is functioning as a focus group for the developers, which can be a good thing.

See the recent Queen Orcs Orcs Orcs campaign, where people were so upset about one of the characters making a rude gesture in the art, and Queen was able to take that feedback and give folks a choice about how they'd like to receive it.

Long story short, IMO, KS = l'awesome! The good far outweighs the bad
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wolverine1977 wrote:
Not saying some KS runtroughs weren't helpfull and turned out to be good games but alot of them where not that interseting.


Every KS Runthrough is interesting (IMO) & timely.
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