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Subject: Post O&C Thoughts rss

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Grish Noren
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While we wait for the oncoming storm of another cycle, how are people feeling about decks and what's viable right now? Strategy is kinda dead at the moment so I figured a general whatcha doin now topic would be good to start the conversation again.

Corp side I'm milking NEH for the last few weeks that I can because I do enjoy this style of deck and its totally going to die.

Runner side I'm toying with professor (more competitive than expected) and Riena headlock.
 
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f h
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Probably not really the direction/response you were thinking, but I think I'm most likely done w/ the game. I love playing it, unfortunately don't get to play that often which is probably a huge part of why I'm saying this, but I just can't keep up w/ it any more. I still have the O&C (and Lunar Cycle) cards sitting sorted in a box. I tried going through and creating some decks the other day but just didn't really know where to begin. Really a shame since I played the game back when it first came out and was very excited when it got a new life. Unfortunately the money going into it vs the "payoff" from it just isn't worth it any more...

edit: fixed typo
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fh13 wrote:
Probably not really the direction/response you were thinking, but I think I'm most likely done w/ the game. I love playing it, unfortunately don't get to play that often which is probably a huge part of why I'm saying this, but I just can't keep up w/ it any more. I still have the O&C (and Lunar Cycle) cards sitting sorted in a box. I tried going through and creating some decks the other day but just didn't really know where to begin. Really a shame since I played the game back when it first game out and was very excited when it got a new life. Unfortunately the money going into it vs the "payoff" from it just isn't worth it any more...

+1 to this, although for me it's less about the money and more about the general feeling of frustration that I simply don't get enough time with each pack. The meta changes so fast.
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Mike Romeo
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Yes it's true that a little more time between the packs would be great for people who has less time with the game, especially for people like me who plays a little on OCTGN but have no other players around or store championship!!!


For corp I would like to toy with a foundry grail/next ice!


For Runner love the new anarchs!! I currently play a Noise deck that is not that bad! Darwin and a copy of all anarch breakers, Wyldside Pawn Shop and Data dealer, Djinn and a couple of virii!


Lot of fun!
 
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Lluluien
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DrTall wrote:
fh13 wrote:
Probably not really the direction/response you were thinking, but I think I'm most likely done w/ the game. I love playing it, unfortunately don't get to play that often which is probably a huge part of why I'm saying this, but I just can't keep up w/ it any more. I still have the O&C (and Lunar Cycle) cards sitting sorted in a box. I tried going through and creating some decks the other day but just didn't really know where to begin. Really a shame since I played the game back when it first game out and was very excited when it got a new life. Unfortunately the money going into it vs the "payoff" from it just isn't worth it any more...

+1 to this, although for me it's less about the money and more about the general feeling of frustration that I simply don't get enough time with each pack. The meta changes so fast.

I agree. I think I might have finally found some people that I can teach the game to who will play with me, but in the time it takes for all of us to catch up to the card pool (I've played little enough over the past 12 months that Lunar cycle and O&C are relatively unfamiliar), there will be at least another full cycle and big box.

I actually don't think the volume of cards is too much, but I wish they'd release them 60 at a time every 3 months instead of 20 at a time every month.

Won't stop me from playing though if I can get a consistent group
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John Smith
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if you guys feel the game is going tooo fast just buy the deluxe sets and skip the packs, do a cube or crazy format tourney. New players are still joining this game all the time so give up hope, just slow down on what you buy.
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Brad Metz
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DrTall wrote:
fh13 wrote:
Probably not really the direction/response you were thinking, but I think I'm most likely done w/ the game. I love playing it, unfortunately don't get to play that often which is probably a huge part of why I'm saying this, but I just can't keep up w/ it any more. I still have the O&C (and Lunar Cycle) cards sitting sorted in a box. I tried going through and creating some decks the other day but just didn't really know where to begin. Really a shame since I played the game back when it first game out and was very excited when it got a new life. Unfortunately the money going into it vs the "payoff" from it just isn't worth it any more...

+1 to this, although for me it's less about the money and more about the general feeling of frustration that I simply don't get enough time with each pack. The meta changes so fast.

I'm not sure where this mentality comes from, depending on the size of your ANR group, the meta will only change as fast as its slowest member, we've got some folks changing things up, but just as many still playing around with the previous cycles. I, for instance (though perhaps not a representative), am almost always a data pack or two behind. I'm not disparaging your feelings, but I don't think it's necessarily true that the meta changes as fast as the release schedule and media would impay.


So what's been going on in the BCS meta with Order and Chaos: I would say that while some decks have incorporated some toys, the gestalt hasn't changed much. We had a MaXx player that made a splash, but he gave it up after getting screwed on the card dump one too many times. She's an amazing runner that's high tension, but maybe too much for some. I'm experimenting with a Titan cosmic kill deck that's all shiny, but doesn't do much differently from old school Weyland. I think that's more or less true for all the new IDs. Argus prompted some death by a thousand bullets decks, but since we're a scorch heavy meta, most of us are able to roll with the punches.

I've got a Spoony kit deck that I'm playing with, but again, while it's neat toy, I'm uncomvinced that Spooned is worth a Legwork, so my deck is looking more and more old school as I play her.

There's no doubt that order and chaos is a cool pack, but my impression is that a lot of the cards work with each other and it's taking time to percolate into other decks.
 
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Aaron Freeman
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I have been loving the resurgence of Anarch and have been playing mostly MaxX and Reina. I am trying to get a Datasucker/Morningstar build to work to combat the current meta (Morningstar owns everything except Hadrian's and Curtain Wall).

I also have been flirting with Professor, but have not committed to any decks. There has been talk of people actually doing well (good on ya GumOnShoe and Peekay) with him lately and I think he is almost there. Clot as only a card slot is actually a pretty big shot in the arm.

Stimshop Chaos Theory has been fun too.

Corp side I keep trying to get Argus to work and failing miserably. I don't think the cards are there to really make them competitive yet. Blue Sun is better than ever. Jinteki PE is waning as more people get more familiar with it and RP has a few new builds rather than one monster build.

Space Ice is weird and I haven't cracked how to get them to work out of anything other than Weyland 2. It seems almost like a necessity to run Trick of Light OR Commercialization/Constellation Protocols to get it working. You also need to run either Builder and/or Space Camp. Its so vexxing to me right now!

In addition, some beautiful things coming out of HB and two new builds out of NBN.

The game is very healthy and I cannot wait for the new cycle.
 
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dengue wrote:
DrTall wrote:
fh13 wrote:
Probably not really the direction/response you were thinking, but I think I'm most likely done w/ the game. I love playing it, unfortunately don't get to play that often which is probably a huge part of why I'm saying this, but I just can't keep up w/ it any more. I still have the O&C (and Lunar Cycle) cards sitting sorted in a box. I tried going through and creating some decks the other day but just didn't really know where to begin. Really a shame since I played the game back when it first game out and was very excited when it got a new life. Unfortunately the money going into it vs the "payoff" from it just isn't worth it any more...

+1 to this, although for me it's less about the money and more about the general feeling of frustration that I simply don't get enough time with each pack. The meta changes so fast.

I'm not sure where this mentality comes from, depending on the size of your ANR group, the meta will only change as fast as its slowest member, we've got some folks changing things up, but just as many still playing around with the previous cycles. I, for instance (though perhaps not a representative), am almost always a data pack or two behind. I'm not disparaging your feelings, but I don't think it's necessarily true that the meta changes as fast as the release schedule and media would impay.

You're probably right. But I *used* to be able to keep up. Now I am slipping behind (since getting a dog) and the difference between how on top of things I used to be and how I feel now is really bothering me.
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Andrew Keddie
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Surely it changes as fast as the FASTEST member (as they introduce new cards and strategies, therefore influencing the metagame)?

I have to say that Hivemind is legit scary - with Incubator and/or Breeding Grounds, all your viruses are on, all the time - the only downside I've seen is it can be a little slow to set up.

My next runner experiment is going to be a Whizzard 'trash all your things' deck (cutlery, scrubbers, parasites and Gravedigger). No idea how it's going to work, but I'm gonna have fun finding out

Corp-side I've been messing around with Gagarin and BWBI trying to make some properly taxing decks, which so far is going ok. Looking forward to trying out some mad NBN non-FA nonsense for my next League Night (unless the jank inspiration strikes and sends me elsewhere).
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Danwarr
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gumOnShoe wrote:
While we wait for the oncoming storm of another cycle, how are people feeling about decks and what's viable right now? Strategy is kinda dead at the moment so I figured a general whatcha doin now topic would be good to start the conversation again.

Corp side I'm milking NEH for the last few weeks that I can because I do enjoy this style of deck and its totally going to die.

Runner side I'm toying with professor (more competitive than expected) and Riena headlock.

Runners: I've been mostly playing Reg MaxX with a bit of my own twist and a fairly standard Leela build that have both been doing well.

Corp: A fairly boring Worlds RP. I've been trying to test out other IDs but none of them seem to control the game as well. Though I'm interested to try a couple Grail builds out.

As far as what is actually viable right now in terms of "Tier 1" type decks:

Runner: PPVP Kate, Andy/Leela, Eater/Keyhole MaxX, Headlock/Siphon Riena, Reg MaxX

Corp: Blue Sun, RP/Grail RP, EtF Rush, NEH Fastrobiotics, NEH Shark Tank/Butcher Shop/N.E.A.R.P.A.D.

Though to be honest, there a lot of interesting decks with IDs/archetypes other than these winning SCs all over the place. So, lots of things are viable/playable but the "Tier 1" decks are the slightly more consistent or dominant.

Additional thought about the Professor; Having played against a few Professor decks, I think that ID pretty powerful considering how diverse ice can be across Corp deck types. I think his one knock against him is that the influence restriction kind of hurts his econ package because he can't include Lucky Find.
 
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Aaron Freeman
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GumOnShoe's modified version of an Exile build out of Professor has given me a few good really interesting games. Its not quite tier 1, but its actually been the most competitive build for Professor since PeeKay's build some months back. Turning every install click you make into a potential 4/5 credit gain and (most) of the programs are completely free to install with his set up.

PeeKay also hinted on Stimhack that he took 1st seed at a store champs with Professor, but lost in double elims. The deck apparently ran Freelance, 47 cards and "had Rex as its code gate breaker". No hints on the builds just yet.

Prof is getting better. His econ disadvantage will someday (hopefully) level out.
 
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Brad Metz
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CommissarFeesh wrote:
Surely it changes as fast as the FASTEST member (as they introduce new cards and strategies, therefore influencing the metagame)?

I guess for this particular Big Box, though, the major counters for the obvious builds from it are already in place. We have bad pub removal, we have ways of clearing the runner's heap, and we have ways of dealing with pesky AI breakers. On the flip side, we have ways of dealing with meat damage, we have ways of getting around big ice, and we have ways of draining the corps money.

O&C IMO provided new ways to do old things, and certainly added some variety, but I don't think there was anything truly meta-changing. Like compare it to someone like Leela, where you have to fundamentally change how you play glacier in order to get anywhere or Nasir, where the calculation of safety is now inverted. Blue sun where money is now part of the infrastructure.

I also think that this is a reflection of the state of the card pool. There's a lot of cards available, but to keep the game from power creeping, they have to tweak the method, not the efficiency or ability. Everything seems really balanced so with a lot of cards in the pool, you don't need all the new toys to counter...the new toys.

Don't get me wrong, I think this is a good thing. And I like a lot of the new cards (day job, for instance is a godsend for my Quetzal build). But you can do some of the same things about as well with old cards, too. This also could be a style difference; I have never given a shit about viruses and probably won't start. I can see all the parts that attract people to them, but I like my anarchs clean. Quetzal was the first and so far only anarch I've played and, while I'm looking at Kim and Valencia, I think anything I come up with is going to have the Noiseshop guys shaking their heads.

As far as the fastest vs. slowest member, my thinking was more that the person going out and buying all the new cards is going to adopt different strategies and the rest can adapt with their own card pool. Maybe that's still a meta change.


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wanderingmystic
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Dr. Tall made a neat comment above, about how fast the meta changes and the feeling of not keeping up.
Part of what I love about this game is how FFG makes old cards more relevant again. Even if we "miss" stuff now, it may cycle around to be really good a year or more later.

Take my fav runner, Kit. She's been around for quite some time, but hasn't really ever had the support to be more than a fun build. Not really tournament level. But you see some Kit decks taking SCs lately. Now with stealth, spooned, and new ways to run the plethora of code gate breakers out there, she's gaining a lot of momentum.

That's the state of the post O&C meta for me. It's a time of complete experimentation. Anything seems possible. And with the meta diversifying, I feel even more justified to run what I want instead of "what's proven to work." More than anything, I'm excited about the concept of "have a deck that works well against many different opponents" than "let me counter what I know 80% of my opponents will play."
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Vincent Perry
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One of the things I like about Netrunner (and probably LCG's in general) is that I feel like I can still enjoy the game even when I am not playing as much (like now). I do buy all the cards when they come out, and if I feel like I'm a little out of it, I just netdeck the new hotness.
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Peter Hopkins
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I'm having great fun with the game at the moment, kind of feels like you could come against anything!

I'm running an NEH Turtlepads/Grail deck, which is pretty competitive, and a Gagarin deck that is fun but less competitive; my major problem in that is the Hostile Takeovers. While they're great for sealing the game or fuelling an archer, that bad pub just works completely counter to the ID!

On the runner side, I've just switched my Andy drip econ deck over to run out of Iain after I saw a similar deck win a SC, not played as the old guy for a while and wanted to give him a spin. I also have converted my version of AoA that I used to run out of Whizzard to run out of MaxX, and that is just as sickening as it ever was.
 
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Andrew Keddie
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Don't run Hostile in Gargarin! The last thing you want is BP.

Just forget about 1-pointers; keep your density down (2 and 3-pointers) and keep the tax up with Red Herrings and Ash having those in a server together (plus Gagarin tax) is hilarious.
 
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