Wes Nott
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Warrensburg
Missouri
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I am currently learning to play ASL via ASL SK#2, but have a question:

In the game I am playing a stack of units with a leader moved during the movement phase into an open ground hex and were subject to defensive fire. The defensive first fire resulted in a 4MC which the leader failed and then subsequently all the units in his stack failed. All units were subject to quality reduction, so after reducing each in quality I made an LLTC and all units in his stack failed their PTC.

So skip ahead to the rout phase and all units in the hex are under DM status, and all units except the leader are pinned.

I was able to successfully rout the leader away to the safety of a stone building, however, my other units are now stuck in their hex, broken and pinned within LOS of one stack of enemy units.

These pinned and broken units (in an open ground hex and in LOS of an enemy unit) are eliminated for failure to route, correct?

Now hypothetically speaking had these same pinned and broken units in LOS of an enemy unit been in a non open ground hex during the route phase am i correct in thinking that they would not be eliminated for failure to route (because they would not be subject to interdiction?).

Either way, next time i'll be sure to move my poor italians more wisely (they just cant stand up to that American FP!)

-Wes


 
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Wes Nott
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Ok, I see how i missed two words and was confused:

"If a leader breaks, all GOOD ORDER, units with a lower current morale level stacked with him must take a PTC after resolving the initial attack...."

Thank you very much sir, looks like my italians will be able to rout and fight another day!
 
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Kevin Moody
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Re: Question re: Pinned-Broken units in LOS of Known enemy U
And remember, broken units never pin; pinned units that become broken have the pinned markers removed.
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Wes Nott
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I guess that was my main area of confusion.

In my ASL SK#2 rulebooklet I could not find where it specifically said "Broken Units never pin."

It does say "Broken Units may only rout and attempt to rally."

I guess there is an art to fully comprehending the rules? I see I just need to read more carefully.

Thanks for the help guys!!!

I'm really enjoying this so far even though i've screwed up a few times!
 
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Jay Richardson
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Lindsborg
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Wes Nott wrote:
I guess there is an art to fully comprehending the rules? I see I just need to read more carefully.

No, Wes, in this case I think the rules are at fault.

Other than a brief mention in the Defensive Fire rules (page 11, 1st column, 2nd para) the rules simply don't make it clear that when a unit breaks it always loses pinned status (and also CX status).

The are a number of these types of rules that have been lost in the process of condensing the massive ASL Rulebook down to the tiny ASLSK rules. If you read through the various rules posting on the ASLSK pages here you will notice many instances where it was necessary to use the full ASL Rulebook to answer a question.

The good news is that MMP has a long list of these "missing rules" that are going to be corrected in the ASLSK #3 rulebook (and I suggested that they add this one as well), so rulebook #3 will hopefully be much more complete than the first two were.
 
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Craig Benn
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Re: Question re: Pinned-Broken units in LOS of Known enemy U
Although broken units never get pin counters, if during the rout phase they are subject to interdiction and roll equal to their broken side morale - i.e a pin result, they stop routing and can't move any further during the rout phase.

Wes, the rules seem daunting at first, but become second nature after a while. Wait till you start playing with vehicles!
 
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Wes Nott
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richfam wrote:
Wes Nott wrote:
I guess there is an art to fully comprehending the rules? I see I just need to read more carefully.

No, Wes, in this case I think the rules are at fault.

Other than a brief mention in the Defensive Fire rules (page 11, 1st column, 2nd para) the rules simply don't make it clear that when a unit breaks it always loses pinned status (and also CX status).

The are a number of these types of rules that have been lost in the process of condensing the massive ASL Rulebook down to the tiny ASLSK rules. If you read through the various rules posting on the ASLSK pages here you will notice many instances where it was necessary to use the full ASL Rulebook to answer a question.

The good news is that MMP has a long list of these "missing rules" that are going to be corrected in the ASLSK #3 rulebook (and I suggested that they add this one as well), so rulebook #3 will hopefully be much more complete than the first two were.


One other thing I was not clear on regarding broken units was what to do with a wounded and broken leader (my poor italians took a beating in my first game...). The rules stated broken units who can rout have 6 MF but also stated a wounded SMC only has 3 MF...So which takes precedence over the other?

After poking around the ASLSK #1 and #2 forums and doing a little reading one some other ASL site I believe I arrived at the correct conclusion that a wounded and broken SMC only has a 3 MF in the Rout Phase.

But, my difficulty with the rules aside, i'm having a great time learning ASL. I am going to Preorder SK 3 and possibly pick up SK 1 as well after it's reprinted. After being exposed to all that I think i'll be able to decided if jumping into full blown ASL is right for me.
 
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Stephen Stewart
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Visalia
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Quote:


One other thing I was not clear on regarding broken units was what to do with a wounded and broken leader (my poor italians took a beating in my first game...). The rules stated broken units who can rout have 6 MF but also stated a wounded SMC only has 3 MF...So which takes precedence over the other?


Italians taking a beating...???

How the hell could you let that happen? C'mon...with 3 firepower and the range of a good throwing arm...SHEESH...I'm not going to mention how much "moral fibre" they have in combat...IRON MEN of the BOOT!!
 
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Mark Humphries
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>it always loses pinned status (and also CX status).

I can understand losing Pinned status when breaking, but why lose CX? If I'm lucky enough to rally on my next turn, I'd be allowed to Double Time two turns in a row?
 
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Jay Richardson
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Re: Question re: Pinned-Broken units in LOS of Known enemy U
A4.51 (full ASL rules): "A unit's CX counter is removed if the unit breaks;..."

Note that a broken unit can outrun an unbroken unit:

An unbroken unit can use 6 MF with Double Time, and then 4 MF the following turn, for a total of 10 MF over two turns. But a broken unit can use 6 MF each RtPh... so it could use 12 MF over two turns if it is eligible to rout each turn. (An unbroken unit would have to move with a leader just to match the broken unit, and use both a leader and Double Time to outrun a broken unit.)

This suggests that the adrenaline rush induced by a state of panic (breaking) can overcome normal physical fatigue (CX)... in other words, scared guys can run faster.

So the sequence of: move with Double Time; break (remove CX); rally; move again with Double Time – which would allow you to move with Double Time two turns in a row – seems plausible if you consider the break to be accompanied by the adrenaline rush of panic, which cancels any existing fatigue.

It is still unclear whether the ASL rule quoted above will actually apply to the ASLSK rules or not. In the draft text of the ASLSK3 rulebook that I reviewed, a note about broken units losing pin and CX status was not present. But I haven't seen the charts, rules sumaries, or examples of play that will accompany the ASLSK3 rulebook, so this could be covered somewhere other than in the text of the rules themselves.
 
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Stephen Thomas
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Burntwood
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Hi, sorry this thread is a bit old and I am still learning the ASL Starter Kit rules but have the ASL RB (its not mine) as well for reference.

May I ask a question regarding your statement "Although broken units never get pin counters" could you point me to where in the ASL Rule Book that it actually says that.

I understand the pinning possibility in the Interdiction process.

Sorry if its a dumb question.

Thanks

Steve

 
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Jay Richardson
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Stephen Thomas wrote:
May I ask a question regarding your statement "Although broken units never get pin counters" could you point me to where in the ASL Rule Book that it actually says that.

See A7.8: "Pinning affects broken units only during Interdiction,..."
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