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Machi Koro: Harbor» Forums » Rules

Subject: Shopping Mall and Flower Shop = confusion rss

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Charles Waterman
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If I understand the text on Shopping Mall, it seems to state that each CARD of the types listed gets a **ONE TIME +1** coin bonus each time the card would provide it's normal benefit to that player.

In other words, I would have expected from the text on Shopping Mall that with this situation:

"Shopping Mall + 3 Flower Orchards + 2 Flower Shops, 6 is rolled"

that player would gain EIGHT coins, not TWELVE!

First Flower Shop = 3+1 coin, Second Flower Shop = 3 + 1 coin = 8 coins.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

However, the Notes On The Establishments for Flower Shop in the Harbor Expansion rules imply that Shopping Mall has a progressive +1 benefits for the number of times that card's payment is activated.

Firast Flower Shop = 6, Second Flower Shop = 6 = 12 coins!

Could someone from Pandasaurus comment on whether this "twelve" was a misprint? If not, will "Millionaire's Row" be adding more cafe/bread cards that double in this way with Shopping Mall, or will Flower Shop be the unique card to trigger this doubling?
 
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Simon Lundström
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I can confirm it is NOT a misprint. The Japanese manual says exactly the same thing, and is very explicit:

Japanese manual wrote:

(Flower shop FAQ)
With the effect of the Shopping Mall, the Flower Shop will generate 2 coins per Flower Field.
Example: You have a Shopping Mall, 3 Flower Fields and 2 Flower Shops, and you roll a 6. You would get a total of 12 coins: ((3 Flower Fields (1+1)) x 2 Flower Shops.


However, I totally agree with you that it's a fault in thought, and I will go so far that, when playing, I will probably ignore this un-intuitional rule. The Shopping Mall says "Earn +1 coin from your own [cafe] and [clothes] establishments". The Flower shop is an Establishment that generates 1 coin per Flower Field. Hence, the +1 coin is done to the Flower Shop, not per each Flower Field.

If the Shopping mall would say "Double the income from your own [cafe] and [clothes] establishments" OR if the Flower Shop says "This activates once for each Flower Field you have, and generates 1 coin per activation" OR if the Shopping Mall's effect would have affected the Flower Field, I would agree that it would be 12 coins.

As now, I'm ready to think that it's a misprint even in the Japanese manual. In fact, I'll ask Suganuma.
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montebanc wrote:
If not, will "Millionaire's Row" be adding more cafe/bread cards that double in this way with Shopping Mall, or will Flower Shop be the unique card to trigger this doubling?

Shopping Mall does not simply double the benefit of Flower Shop.

For all other Restaurant and Shop buildings, Shopping Mall applies +1 to the each printed numerical benefit of the building.

For example, the text on Convenience Store says, "Get 3 coins from the bank, on your turn only."

Shopping Mall adds 1 to the printed value, changing it to "Get 3+1 (=4) coins from the bank, on your turn only."

The text on Flower Shop says, "Get 1 coin from the bank for each Flower Orchard you own, on your turn only."

Shopping Mall adds 1 to the printed value, changing it to "Get 1+1 (=2) coins from the bank for each Flower Orchard you own, on your turn only."

It ends up being a doubling because the original number of Flower Shop was 1. Shopping Mall doubles Bakery for the same reason.

This interpretation of "+1 to any value printed on a shop or restaurant" also leads to the expected interpretation for Sushi Bar.

The text on Sushi Bar says, "If you have a Harbor, you get 3 coins from the player who rolled the dice."

Each Sushi Bar pays 0 if you don't have Harbor, and 3 if you do. A direct application of Shopping Mall (with the text printed on it) would suggest that, with it, each Sushi Bar pays 1 if you have Harbor, and 4 if you do.

But the "add 1 to each printed value" interpretation (which leads to the "doubling" of Flower Shop) changes Sushi Bar to "If you have a Harbor, you get 3+1 (=4) coins from the player who rolled the dice."

This would still pay nothing if you don't have Harbor, which is what everyone seems to expect.

I am not saying that this interpretation corresponds directly to the English text printed on the Shopping Mall card.

But the "add 1 to each printed value" interpretation can be applied consistently in a way that is consistent with what is printed in the Harbor rules for Flower Shop.

Flower Shop is a unique card in the game in that it is the only shop or restaurant card whose printed value is not fixed but which is paid per another building. That is what is special about Flower Shop - the unexpected application of Shopping Mall is a result of this unique nature.

Regarding the question, "will "Millionaire's Row" be adding more cafe/bread cards that double in this way with Shopping Mall?": the posted rules for Machi Koro: Millionaire's Row do not include any other buildings like Flower Shop, although there are some like Sushi Bar.
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Simon Lundström
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I just got a reply from Suganuma. It seems gillum is correct in his interpretation; the text on the card want to imply that you "add 1 to the coin number that the card says".

So "get 1 coin per Flower Field" turns into "Get 2 coins per flower field".

It says exactly the same thing on the Japanese cards, so he's got a lot of questions from Japanese customers too. The text on Shopping Mall is misleading, and he apologizes for that.

Flower Shop is the only card that is affected in this way, though. Nothing in Machikoro Sharp has anything similar.
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Thanks for confirming this!

I guess this is intuitive/thematic if you think of the Flower Shop as having a stand for each Flower Field (like a farmers market), and Shopping Mall adds 1 to the value of each such stand.

It also makes more sense in the following way.

Suppose that Shopping Mall gave a single +1 to Flower Shop regardless of how many Flower Fields you had.

Then Flower Shop pays 1 + # of Flower Fields - i.e., 1 coin if you have 0 Flower Fields.

That creates an odd situation: the Flower Shop can pay money even if you don't have any flowers (because you have no Flower Fields).

This would be inconsistent with the case of Sushi Bar: Sushi Bar pays nothing if you have no fish (if you don't have Harbor).

The designer's "add 1 to printed value" keeps it that you get no money from Flower Shop if you have no Flower Fields.

The "+1 for the whole card" interpretation would require a special case if you didn't want Flower Shop to pay at all with 0 Flower Fields.
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Charles Waterman
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Zimeon wrote:
I just got a reply from Suganuma. It seems gillum is correct in his interpretation; the text on the card want to imply that you "add 1 to the coin number that the card says".

So "get 1 coin per Flower Field" turns into "Get 2 coins per flower field".

It says exactly the same thing on the Japanese cards, so he's got a lot of questions from Japanese customers too. The text on Shopping Mall is misleading, and he apologizes for that.

Flower Shop is the only card that is affected in this way, though. Nothing in Machikoro Sharp has anything similar.


Thanks Simon! Yep, I agree that the Shopping Mall text is misleading. I think it would have been wiser to add more text to the Flower Shop card stating "If you have the Shopping Mall, you actually get..." to make it clear what the special quality of this building is. Or perhaps not to have had such an odd rule exception card as Flower Shop. I'm gonna break my own rule and suggest players play the Flower Shop as having the same effect as ***all the other cards in three sets*** instead of trying to remember the rule for this pair of cards. Unfortunate glitch in an otherwise fun game!
 
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Robèr Boonmann
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Zimeon wrote:
I just got a reply from Suganuma. It seems gillum is correct in his interpretation; the text on the card want to imply that you "add 1 to the coin number that the card says".

So "get 1 coin per Flower Field" turns into "Get 2 coins per flower field".

It says exactly the same thing on the Japanese cards, so he's got a lot of questions from Japanese customers too. The text on Shopping Mall is misleading, and he apologizes for that.

Flower Shop is the only card that is affected in this way, though. Nothing in Machikoro Sharp has anything similar.


I already interpreted it this way, just because the numbers were written in numbers.
Good to know that it is confirmed now.
Thanks for asking. meeple
 
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Charles Waterman
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If the author can come up with a clearer wording for this card, it'd be great to get something I could use as a pasteup. Personally, I can't think of a clear and succinct way to write this ...odd? rule out.
 
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montebanc wrote:
If the author can come up with a clearer wording for this card, it'd be great to get something I could use as a pasteup. Personally, I can't think of a clear and succinct way to write this ...odd? rule out.

It could be, "increase by 1 any number printed on a restaurant or shop card."

See Re: Using a 'Flower Shop' when you have the 'Shopping Mall' card in play
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