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Subject: Decompose question rss

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David Anderson
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Monroe
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I’m trying to remember what the definition of throw away a action card from my hand is. On the card “Decompose” does it tell me to throw away a card from the game, or just to my discard pile?
 
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Trevin Beattie
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Eugene
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Mage Knight Rule Book, page 5 wrote:
DISCARDING AND
THROWING AWAY

1. If an effect tells you to discard a card, put the discarded card into your discard pile. You may never discard a Wound card, unless the effect explicitly allows it.
2. If an effect tells you to throw away a card then:
a. If it is a Wound, put it back in the Wound pile.
b. Otherwise, remove it from the game (return it to the box).

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David Anderson
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thanks, still new
 
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FOWL Noah
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Wait a minute....the cards that tell you to throw away a card... you can throw away wounds even if they don't specifically specify? Are you kidding me???? Am I reading this wrong? This is a game changer. I used to avoid Decomposition like it was the plague!
 
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Christopher B
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I guess the point with the wounds is there because when you heal you are supposed to *throw away a wound*. So it just tells you what that means.

That point does not mean that any card that says to throw away a card can throw away wound cards. It has to specifically state that it affects wounds (as stated somewhere else in the rulebook. Posting from my phone, so can't give the exact quote).
 
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toast
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Page 4 of the rulebook, Basic Game Concepts:

Quote:
6. Some card effects order you to pay extra mana of some color, or to discard (put to your discard pile) or throw away (remove from the game) another card. These effects cannot be played if you are unable to do this.
a. Wound cards can be never discarded or thrown away this way, unless the effect explicitly allows so. Thus “any card” refers to any card in your hand, except Wound cards.
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FOWL Noah
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Ok thank you. That's what I thought, but the rules above, taken out of context shocked me! I'll continue to avoid Decompose like the worthless card eating virus it is then!
 
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Magnesi
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FOWLmusic wrote:
Wait a minute....the cards that tell you to throw away a card... you can throw away wounds even if they don't specifically specify? Are you kidding me???? Am I reading this wrong? This is a game changer.
Even if "throw away a card" allowed to throw away a wound (which as toastp13pm4tz pointed out it doesn't), decompose wouldn't allow you to do that: it specifies that you have to throw away an action card. The same happens with Maximal Effect, Training, etc.

AFAIK, all effects that allows/require that you throw away a card, specifies the type of the card. So it isn't necessary to specify that you can't throw away wounds unless told.

Quote:
I used to avoid Decomposition like it was the plague!
Decomposition is a great card if you don't get it in the first round, as long as you don't throw away the first cards you draw. Crystallize is usually useless in the last rounds, so it's nice to throw it away in midgame and get some crystals. In some games you don't need influence in the late game, and you'd be happy to throw away threaten and promise. Some other times, you have focused on siege attacks and range attacks are quite useless: you can throw away swiftness. In summary, it's a great card if you decompose the cards that are less useful and use these crystals to power the most powerful cards.
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FOWL Noah
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Right, I was thinking about that, it could be very useful right at the end of the game, but I still tend to shy away from it.
 
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FOWL Noah
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Then again, thinking about it, it is a seriously weak card even compared to Krang's Savage Harvesting card. Compare the basic actions of those cards and it's almost ridiculous. Krang gets 2 movement points, then a crystal for simply DISCARDING another card, whereas Decompose asks you to remove a card for the game without even providing the move points savage harvesting does. The strong effect of Decompose is a bit harder to compare, one card gives three crystals, but requires a red mana, so in a way it's only providing two extra mana that turn, while Savage Harvest could potentially net you as many crystals, plus 4 move points, and all cards usable on the next round. I still feel decompose is a weak card, especially it's basic action.
 
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toast
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Decompose is obviously situational, but so is Savage Harvesting. The latter requires you to have quite a bunch of cards in hand: Savage Harvesting, probably additional move cards, and cards to discard. Its effectiveness is further hampered by the fact that you need to be next to the right sort of terrain when you draw it. In addition, the other cards need to be of the right color, and you need to be able to afford discarding them in the first place. I have found it very difficult to use this effectively, and have mostly used it to generate a single crystal (which is still great).

I think Decompose is a very good card in the right situation, as described above by Magnesi. I would never want to pick it up in round 1 and then proceed throw away 6 of my basic cards, that's just a terrible idea (at least in Solo Conquest). For the same reason, I wouldn't pick up Maximal Effect early either, as I've found that I'd rather keep most of my cards early on and never wanted to throw anything away.

But throwing away a card can actually be very beneficial sometimes. For example, once I am at the command limit and, say, haven't picked up Diplomacy, what am I gonna do with Promise? It's a dead card. Hence, I'd rather throw it away for three crystals, which gives me the ability to power three other cards (or spells!), and gets rid of an otherwise useless card for me in future rounds, increasing the quality of my draws. Also, it will always give you 3 crystals for just 2 cards in your hand. Savage Harvesting is a lot more restrictive in this way. You could even play Decompose during a city assault and generate a lot of mana with very little effort to power all the other powerful stuff in your hand. The later you get it, the less you will miss the cards you throw away. Don't forget that having crystals is generally awesome. I'd trade a useless card for it any day.

Also keep in mind that there are lots of ways to generate mana, and getting that red mana from the source, Concentrate, a skill, a Ring, glade, or whatever might not be problematic at all. Sometimes this allows you to make the use of your mana much more efficient. For example, if you draw a Ring at the end of the round and can't do anything with it, being able to Crystallize that token is great, and so would be using Decompose with it.
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Magnesi
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FOWLmusic wrote:
Then again, thinking about it, it is a seriously weak card even compared to Krang's Savage Harvesting card. Compare the basic actions of those cards and it's almost ridiculous. Krang gets 2 movement points, then a crystal for simply DISCARDING another card, whereas Decompose asks you to remove a card for the game without even providing the move points savage harvesting does. The strong effect of Decompose is a bit harder to compare, one card gives three crystals, but requires a red mana, so in a way it's only providing two extra mana that turn, while Savage Harvest could potentially net you as many crystals, plus 4 move points, and all cards usable on the next round. I still feel decompose is a weak card, especially it's basic action.
You can't gain crystals with SH when resting; that's a great advantage of Decompose. With SH you have to move to another spot to get a crystal; with decompose you don't have any requirement. And, hey, we're talking about the best basic action here! It's sometimes better than decompose, sometimes worse, it depends.

All the Advanced Action cards in this game are situational: if you have Spell Forge, a couple of crystal+mana skills and no spells, decompose is quite useless. However, it's a great crystal generating card, there are only 2 advance action that can give 3 crystals or more (crystal mastery and decompose).

In most of my games I could use more crystals. However, I usually know in round 3 or 4 which cards will be quite useless in the next rounds. And almost always there are 2 or 3 cards which are much weaker than the rest of my deck. It is situational, and 90% of the times I prefer Maximal Decompose, Blood Rage or Intimidate (to say 3 of the strongest AA) over Decompose. However, saying that "I'd never take this card" is a beginner mistake in MK: every time you have a reward you have to examine your situation, the board, the unit offer, your opponents, everything; and then judge which is the best card in that situation.

And, talking in general, it is true that Decompose, in the first round of a 6-rounds games, is weak. But it is also true that Decompose in the round 4 of 6-rounds games is a better-than-average AA.
 
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FOWL Noah
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Thanks for all the analysis guys. I was thinking about it, and with the other cards like Maximal Effect and the other AA's which require you throwing away a card, I tend to go for them if I can get Training or another skill which allows you to get extra AA's and spells, then I feel more comfortable tossing basic actions knowing I have boosted cards that cover the same ground. It's a psychological barrier for me I'm sure, but every time I see Decompose, I think about it, and don't think I've ever gone for it. I could see, especially with a bloated deck where the round has ended before you drew your last cards, decompose being a great addition. Thank you guys for taking the time to sway me.
 
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