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Subject: Yetis opening statistics rss

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Robert
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Yetis openings (data collected via http://mabrowning.github.io/tmstats/#; if you don't understand the abbreviations, look up the reference here: *click*)

The statistics I extracted (beyond those under "Observation 1") only use 4p games played by players from the upper half in ranking (i.e. "Rating Quartile" is set to "Best + Good"). The data lines below leave out the repetitive "4p, Rat. 4,3" information. All observations should be taken with a grain of salt, as some of the sample sizes are quite small.

As with the other expansion factions, the statistics for the Yetis are less reliable than those for the base factions for several reasons:
- much smaller sample size: 270 games compared to 1000-2000 games for most base game factions
- high share of games in which the player played Yetis first or second time and thus was less likely to "understand how they should be played"
- high share of games in which also a variable faction (Shapeshifters, Riverwalkers) participated: given that these are overpowered, the probability of Yetis being hurt by this is higher than for base game factions

The main comparisons are based on the column labeled "Margin". It contains the VP difference of the given faction compared to the average VPs in the game. So if a game between factions A, B, C and D ends 130:120:110:100VP, then the average VP count is 115VP, and the margins are +15, +5, -5 and -15 for factions A, B C and D respectively. If another game between the same factions ends 150:140:130:120, the respective margins will be exactly the same.

Observation 1 also includes a benchmark for games played by players ranked in the lower half: the delta between their average with all factions compared to the faction whose openings I'm checking may give an indication how "difficult"/"forgiving" the faction is.


Observation 1: Yetis are a worse-than-average faction in the hands of good players and do even worse when played by not-so-good players. It looks as if they are difficult to play / not forgiving mistakes easily.
VP Margin Count
games played by players ranked in the upper half
All 125.68 ± 0.14 6.91 ± 0.13 18339
Non-Variables 125.20 ± 0.14 6.56 ± 0.13 17842
Yetis 126.84 ± 1.33 4.16 ± 1.17 270

games played by players ranked in the lower half
All 108.47 ± 0.18 -7.94 ± 0.15 15981
Non-Variables 108.19 ± 0.18 -8.11 ± 0.15 15612
Yetis 106.49 ± 1.32 -15.59 ± 1.12 279



Observation 2: 55% of all Yetis opened with a temple, while 23% started with their SH and 22% ended round 1 with neither TE nor SH. The temple opening was the only one leading to good scores, but it's only good if the Yetis possess at least 3 dwellings besides the temple at the end of round 1 (which about half of the temple builders manage to achieve).
Building the SH in turn 1 doesn't seem like a good idea, unless the Yetis also manage to build a temple (very rare).
The no-TE-no-SH openings all have quite low sample sizes and the only ones which did well (but just 10 samples) ended round 1 with TP+3/4D.
Desc. VP Margin Count
1SH 123.99 ± 3.23 -0.36 ± 2.80 61
1TE0SH 131.37 ± 1.53 8.58 ± 1.43 150
0TE0SH 118.26 ± 2.92 -2.43 ± 2.37 59

breakdown of SH builders:
TESH 152.67 ± 5.33 15.67 ± 3.83 3
1TPSH 120.80 ± 11.85 -1.82 ± 12.93 5
2TPSH 127.00 ± NaN -10.00 ± NaN 1
0TP0TE0SASH 122.66 ± 3.43 -1.13 ± 2.97 53
* DSH 126.17 ± 5.98 4.76 ± 4.95 15
* 2DSH 113.93 ± 6.02 -5.86 ± 5.32 19
* 3DSH 128.63 ± 5.48 -1.05 ± 5.01 19

breakdown of temple builders (the three SH+TE builders are not included here):
2TE 135.00 ± NaN 22.00 ± NaN 1
2TPTE 165.00 ± NaN 30.70 ± NaN 1
TPTE 130.21 ± 4.73 7.15 ± 4.09 27
* 0DTPTE 160.00 ± 4.00 33.25 ± 1.75 2
* DTPTE 119.88 ± 4.27 -1.64 ± 3.76 19
* 2DTPTE 153.00 ± 9.21 26.30 ± 7.90 6

DTE 132.15 ± 5.24 5.89 ± 4.84 13
2DTE 122.99 ± 2.94 2.81 ± 3.22 34
3DTE 134.55 ± 1.93 11.52 ± 1.78 70
4DTE 142.75 ± 4.33 15.77 ± 6.16 4

breakdown of non-TE/SH builders:
3TP 129.11 ± 7.99 1.53 ± 5.12 8
2TP 112.99 ± 5.01 -6.65 ± 4.10 18
* D2TP 108.20 ± 9.12 -3.26 ± 5.15 5
* 2D2TP 114.83 ± 6.14 -7.95 ± 5.39 13
TP 122.54 ± 6.15 2.06 ± 5.12 18
* DTP 98.00 ± NaN -25.00 ± NaN 1
* 2DTP 110.11 ± 11.30 -4.80 ± 8.58 7
* 3DTP 127.40 ± 7.49 8.50 ± 10.24 5
* 4DTP 139.98 ± 9.42 10.64 ± 7.72 5

3D0TP0TE0SA0SH 102.00 ± 8.38 -9.40 ± 10.31 4
4D0TP0TE0SA0SH 101.00 ± 8.72 -9.97 ± 10.02 3
5D0TP0TE0SA0SH 124.21 ± 4.19 -0.66 ± 5.12 8


Observation 3: The most popular (22%) starting bonus tile for Yetis is BON5 (1w +3pw), followed by the (much more successful) BON1 (spade +2c).
Desc. VP Margin Count
BON1 (Spade) 129.54 ± 2.79 7.77 ± 2.54 52
BON2 (Cult) 136.62 ± 5.45 14.43 ± 4.00 21
BON3 (6C) 122.33 ± 8.04 1.52 ± 8.10 12
BON4 (Ship+1) 118.09 ± 3.03 -1.80 ± 2.76 45
BON5 (3pw,1W) 123.53 ± 2.77 1.75 ± 2.54 60
BON6 (SA/SH VP) 133.71 ± 3.96 4.35 ± 3.63 32
BON7 (TP VP) 118.99 ± 10.55 -3.42 ± 6.63 9
BON8 (1P) 130.60 ± 3.03 5.89 ± 2.86 25
BON9 (D VP) 129.38 ± 5.72 3.08 ± 6.52 5
BON10 (Ship VP) 131.64 ± 4.66 11.31 ± 4.74 9


Observation 4: Looking only at Yetis who ended round 1 with a temple plus at least three dwellings, spade and ship are the most populare bonus tiles, followed by +1w+3pw. Of these, ship does significantly worse than the other two. (Beware: very small sample sizes!)
Desc. VP Margin Count
3DTE
BON1 (Spade) 136.41 ± 4.12 13.27 ± 3.33 18
3DTE
BON2 (Cult) 130.13 ± 4.52 12.22 ± 5.92 8
3DTE
BON3 (6C) 137.33 ± 18.22 15.63 ± 8.79 3
3DTE
BON4 (Ship+1) 127.99 ± 3.42 6.04 ± 3.68 17
3DTE
BON5 (3pw,1W) 141.22 ± 4.74 14.97 ± 4.03 13
3DTE
BON6 (SA/SH VP) 147.67 ± 3.76 24.93 ± 3.55 3
3DTE
BON8 (1P) 137.17 ± 1.38 8.55 ± 5.52 6
3DTE
BON9 (D VP) 149.00 ± NaN 25.20 ± NaN 1
3DTE
BON10 (Ship VP) 130.96 ± 6.58 7.46 ± 7.48 5


Observation 5: Yetis so far are the only faction I found which do not pick FAV11 (Earth1, D>>2) as their preferred favor tile. It's closely beaten by FAV8 (Air2, +4pw). Given that Yetis get more out of each power than the other factions, this makes sense and also seems to be at least as good as picking FAV11.
Desc. VP Margin Count
FAV6 (W2) 143.50 ± 10.50 16.50 ± 11.50 2
FAV7 (E2) 124.80 ± 11.28 9.68 ± 9.82 5
FAV8 (A2) 132.36 ± 2.34 9.11 ± 2.03 75
FAV9 (F1) 127.33 ± 11.89 1.67 ± 11.78 3
FAV10 (W1) 109.00 ± 20.00 -4.60 ± 25.10 2
FAV11 (E1) 132.24 ± 2.00 8.89 ± 2.02 67


Conclusion: The sample sizes being as small as they are, it's difficult to identify the best (or the two best) openings for Yetis. Ending the first round with a temple and at least three dwellings seems to be a decent path to success, preferrably not using the ship+1 bonus tile. Favor taken should be Air2 or Earth1.

=================

Opening statistics done so far:
- Alchemists: Alchemist opening statistics
- Chaos Magicians: Chaos Magicians openings statistics
- Darklings: Darklings opening statistics
- Dwarves: Dwarves opening statistics
- Engineers: Engineers opening statistics
- Fakirs: Fakirs opening statistics
- Giants: Giants opening statistics
- Halflings: Halflings opening statistics
- Mermaids: Mermaids opening statistics
- Nomads: Nomads opening statistics
- Riverwalkers: Riverwalker opening statistics
- Swarmlings: Swarmling opening statistics
- Yetis: here

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Petri Savola
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Even though SH openings seem to be quite poorly on average, my best Yeti game so far was done with SH opening: 192 points without fav11

If your SH is placed in a good spot you may get tons of leech which can lead to a huge economy snowball.
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Yvon Fripon
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Maybe it would be interesting to see whether Yetis should upgrade digging early (or at all), and wether it's good for them to have a late spade >> 2 round.

My first intuition about Yetis was that they could upgrade dig easily, with their powerful economic engine and lowers costs, and benefit greatly from a round 3 or 4 spade bonus.

After several games trying to do so, I was not so sure anymore
 
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Rhett Morgan
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My experience is that advancing dig for both ice factions is very favorable. All of my tests without it have been complete failures.
 
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Silly Words
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Petri wrote:
Even though SH openings seem to be quite poorly on average, my best Yeti game so far was done with SH opening: 192 points without fav11

If your SH is placed in a good spot you may get tons of leech which can lead to a huge economy snowball.


You know, it all seems so obvious when you say it.

Personally I don't know why Yetis are (currently) ranked as the weakest faction. I think they have enormous potential due to the unrestricted and cheaper power options. Take what Petri says above and combine it with an Air2 and you've got so much you can obtain and total flexibility as well.

Maybe they are just hard to play correctly.

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Rhett Morgan
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SillyWords wrote:


Personally I don't know why Yetis are (currently) ranked as the weakest faction. I think they have enormous potential due to the unrestricted and cheaper power options. Take what Petri says above and combine it with an Air2 and you've got so much you can obtain and total flexibility as well.

Maybe they are just hard to play correctly.



The problem with the yetis is that they have no alternative point generation and their power to action ratio is still, in my opinion, a bit short compared to the alchemists' points to cash ability. Most players, myself included, begin by wanting to supplement the basics of their economy with power actions and mis-time normal everyday upgrades. At the more advanced levels their challenge is, I believe, getting an economy running without zero steps which slows you down early while also wanting vp favors. It seems somewhat clear that they would prefer Fav10 over Fav11 but the up and not out theory is one of the more challenging.
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Robert
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I also FEEL that the Yetis should be strong, but I see them being beaten over and over again by "conventional" factions doing conventional things (regardless of whether I play them or somebody else does).
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Matthias Reitberger
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I think they depend on leeching a lot at the beginning.
They also need a good board position with enough single dig to ice terrain. To combine both can be quite tricky.
 
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HenningK
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I love playing the Yetis, and I've had games where I got a lot of leech from a round 1 stronghold and could abuse the power actions a lot. But I also feel that their need to always terraform is such a huge disadvantage that they remain on the lower end of the power curve.

I notice a trend in all the expansion races: Four of them need to terraform every hex they want to settle on, and they are all on the weaker side of the spectrum. (The Dragonlords are the only of these factions that are somewhere in the middle, possibly due to being potentially the most aggressive of all factions.)

Then, we have two factions that can cheat terraforming and essentially gain access to several hexes with one single and rather cheap action, and they are by far the strongest factions. So it seems to me that diverting from the basic terraforming wheel is the major balancing concern in the game.
 
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Matthias Reitberger
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I played them twice online, both 5 Player games.
The first was a little special with 3 of the new factions and a common effort to cut connection with lead to a largest network of only 10.
I won with a large margin.

http://terra.snellman.net/game/TerraOstfriesland15


In the second game I came in last because I chose very bad start position which lead to a lot of digging and not much leech at the start.

http://terra.snellman.net/game/hEurope5p
 
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Carlos Munoz
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Yvon wrote:
Maybe it would be interesting to see whether Yetis should upgrade digging early (or at all), and wether it's good for them to have a late spade >> 2 round.

My first intuition about Yetis was that they could upgrade dig easily, with their powerful economic engine and lowers costs, and benefit greatly from a round 3 or 4 spade bonus.

After several games trying to do so, I was not so sure anymore


I have limited experience (played Yetis only twice) but I got the feeling upgrading digging too early could be disastrous. On my two games I played the following strategies:
- Game 1: "by the book". By instinct I went for what seemed logical (pretty accurate according to this post): BON1 (space +2c), Temple in round 1 with FAV8 Air 2 (+4pw). I built the stronghold pretty late and never upgraded digging
- Game 2: Bonus tile: priest, leeching + grabbing another priest = upgraded digging twice in round 1. 2 terraforms + 2 dwellings in round 1.

Both are quite drastic approaches, perhaps the best one is in between. But I think there are some factors to consider when looking at your approach:
- Temple in round 1 is almost mandatory. You need that early priest to have the flexibility of upgrading digging, sailing or cult track placing... and to make it visible to other players that you have that flexibility.
- The opportunity cost of either upgrading digging or getting the SH in round 1 is too big. You are better off going for other choices.
- Power rotation is very important. If you can get 2 TP + 1 TE early with air 2 that is 8 power per round, plus any leeching you can get.
- Yetis should be played like Giants if possible: prevent other players from expanding cheaply. Any terrain terraformed into ice cannot be terraformed back!
- Upgrading digging early probably comes at the cost of losing in every cult track.
- If you have SH built and enough priests left in the last round you could be the underdog of the Cult Tracks - I got 5 priests with only 3 pw in bowl 3!

In any case, it is a tough race to play. Fun, but tough!


 
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Juho Snellman
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Brannigan wrote:
- Temple in round 1 is almost mandatory. You need that early priest to have the flexibility of upgrading digging, sailing or cult track placing...

The Yetis don't particularly need priest production from temples. They can after all get them for the bargain price of 2 power each, thanks to their discount. And note that you can often get a good chunk of that cost back just by sending the priest to a cult, especially if the 3 spot on a cult is still open.
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Matthias Reitberger
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That gives me another idea for a rather drastic approach.
Build the SH and nothing else
Should be at a place where you can expect good leech.
Then produce about 4 Priests and send them to the cults.
I tried something similar with the Darklings (3 priests to the cults in round 1) in

http://terra.snellman.net/game/kehm05

sadly everybody seems to drop there.
 
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Petri Savola
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1869 wrote:
That gives me another idea for a rather drastic approach.
Build the SH and nothing else
Should be at a place where you can expect good leech.
Then produce about 4 Priests and send them to the cults.
I tried something similar with the Darklings (3 priests to the cults in round 1) in

http://terra.snellman.net/game/kehm05

sadly everybody seems to drop there.

It works with Yetis. In the game which I linked above I sent 4 priests to cults before getting 1st priest from income.
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Carlos Munoz
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jsnell wrote:
Brannigan wrote:
- Temple in round 1 is almost mandatory. You need that early priest to have the flexibility of upgrading digging, sailing or cult track placing...

The Yetis don't particularly need priest production from temples. They can after all get them for the bargain price of 2 power each, thanks to their discount. And note that you can often get a good chunk of that cost back just by sending the priest to a cult, especially if the 3 spot on a cult is still open.


True! But I forgot to write part of my argument there: 5 priests (1 per round) is very nice to have, but the icing in the cake is the Air2 (+4pw). For me Yetis should be played trying to maximize power rotation. Getting early towards TE +2TP or TE+SH (probably better) grants you +8pw per round. If you add leeching and any power you get from priest placing you can easily climb towards +12pw.

Other favour tiles like Earth1 D>>2 or Air1 TP>>>3 could seem good for scoring but I think the Air2 pw early sets you for higher scoring in the long run.

Petri wrote:
1869 wrote:

That gives me another idea for a rather drastic approach.
Build the SH and nothing else
Should be at a place where you can expect good leech.
Then produce about 4 Priests and send them to the cults.
I tried something similar with the Darklings (3 priests to the cults in round 1) in

http://terra.snellman.net/game/kehm05

sadly everybody seems to drop there.

It works with Yetis. In the game which I linked above I sent 4 priests to cults before getting 1st priest from income.


Is it that effective? Other than limiting others from getting all the priest placing they would like troughout the game... hmm... I will try that strategy next game. I suppose those early power buffs pus having high scores in temple tracks for future end round bonuses can do the trick!
 
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Robert
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1869 wrote:

I tried something similar with the Darklings (3 priests to the cults in round 1) in

http://terra.snellman.net/game/kehm05

sadly everybody seems to drop there.
12 hour timer - never join those! shake
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Matthias Reitberger
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I play some that are working quite good.
You just have to make sure there is an ELO limit above 1000 set.
 
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Yvon Fripon
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Quote:
Is it that effective? Other than limiting others from getting all the priest placing they would like troughout the game... hmm... I will try that strategy next game. I suppose those early power buffs pus having high scores in temple tracks for future end round bonuses can do the trick!


The cost is actually quite low (4 pw / priest), and you're getting at least 1 pw back in the operation. The reward, on the other hand, can be pretty high : you can get all cult bonuses for yourself.
 
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T C
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Getting Priests is the most efficient power action for Yetis with the 1 power discount (33% discount).
 
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Helge Ostertag
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It would be interesting to know which starting terrain is the most successful one for Yetis (same for the other ice and vulcano factions...).
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Robert
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Horologiom wrote:
It would be interesting to know which starting terrain is the most successful one for Yetis (same for the other ice and vulcano factions...).
...per map and (in case of the Ice factions) starting position.
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Juho Snellman
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Horologiom wrote:
It would be interesting to know which starting terrain is the most successful one for Yetis (same for the other ice and vulcano factions...).

So my initial assumption before looking at any data was that there would not be any noticeable difference. The home terrain matters so little for all four of those factions. At least I mostly care about which factions I knock out when picking ice, and which color can get the best early game leech when picking volcano. Top pick green for ice, red for volcano assuming all else is equal. That said, from 16k 4p games:


acolytes
black -4.09 vp ± 3.83, count=70
blue -5.76 vp ± 4.17, count=71
brown -5.85 vp ± 2.70, count=126
game -7.47 vp ± 1.21, count=679
gray -7.31 vp ± 2.96, count=95
green -8.33 vp ± 2.62, count=138
red -8.50 vp ± 3.00, count=112
yellow -12.62 vp ± 4.14, count=67

dragonlords
black -2.95 vp ± 2.78, count=137
blue -1.39 vp ± 2.81, count=127
brown -4.16 vp ± 2.33, count=184
game -2.71 vp ± 0.97, count=1098
gray -2.33 vp ± 2.74, count=122
green -4.15 vp ± 2.38, count=186
red -0.83 vp ± 2.15, count=224
yellow -3.27 vp ± 3.02, count=118

icemaidens
black -5.86 vp ± 2.40, count=163
blue -5.29 vp ± 2.51, count=131
brown -0.88 vp ± 2.43, count=144
game -3.33 vp ± 0.92, count=1075
gray -5.60 vp ± 2.57, count=130
green 1.85 vp ± 1.99, count=226
red -4.46 vp ± 2.54, count=156
yellow -6.37 vp ± 2.72, count=125

yetis
black -11.77 vp ± 2.38, count=195
blue -6.75 vp ± 2.48, count=168
brown -2.72 vp ± 2.41, count=208
game -7.31 vp ± 0.90, count=1400
gray -6.90 vp ± 2.56, count=183
green -4.14 vp ± 1.90, count=313
red -10.95 vp ± 2.34, count=187
yellow -11.17 vp ± 2.70, count=146


The variation between colors is a lot higher than I expected.
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Robert
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Interesting!

I think even though the numbers will be smaller, knowing which map they played would be really relevant.
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Tim Bryce
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The sanctuary opening is missing here. I'd be interested to see what the statistics for this are, since I think it works pretty well.
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Gabriel Pope
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jsnell wrote:
yetis
black -11.77 vp ± 2.38, count=195
blue -6.75 vp ± 2.48, count=168
brown -2.72 vp ± 2.41, count=208
game -7.31 vp ± 0.90, count=1400
gray -6.90 vp ± 2.56, count=183
green -4.14 vp ± 1.90, count=313
red -10.95 vp ± 2.34, count=187
yellow -11.17 vp ± 2.70, count=146
[/c]

The variation between colors is a lot higher than I expected.


I'm not at all surprised to see such variation--it's pretty obvious that the distribution of different colors on the board is not equally useful. Red and yellow being weak is about as expected, as is green and brown being strong.

On the other hand, WOW! I was definitely not expecting black to be so horrible, it's fine for building opportunities and knocks darklings out of the running for you.
 
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