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Subject: Poker Face rss

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Andrew Shegda
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sunglasses and hat.
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James Clarke
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New wife ?
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Wade
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Niquilibrium wrote:
My wife has informed me that I have a terrible poker face, and thus I cannot bluff with her. It also didn't help that she informed everyone at the table what my apparent tell is, during the game angry. So I only got two pieces of contraband past the sheriff. I had to start just sending legal goods through and make people think I was trying to sneak contraband through. This did score me enough points to squeak by with the win, and the game was fun, but I can't help but think that it would be more fun if I were able to bluff convincingly. Any tips on working on my supposedly terrible poker face? Or should I call it my "Sheriff Face"?


Don't use a poker face. Just overact every time (think Al Pacino in Scent of a Woman) and no one will be able to figure you out.
 
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aron craig
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Don't look at your cards == perfect poker face. Do that every few hands.. will REALLY mess with them trying to read you.
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Eric Matthews
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"Poker face" is something most people have to practice and learn... And you my friend now have a fantastic opportunity to learn how to perfect yours and fool your wife in future games.

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D.M. Jones
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Niquilibrium wrote:
My wife has informed me that I have a terrible poker face, and thus I cannot bluff with her. It also didn't help that she informed everyone at the table what my apparent tell is, during the game angry. So I only got two pieces of contraband past the sheriff. I had to start just sending legal goods through and make people think I was trying to sneak contraband through. This did score me enough points to squeak by with the win, and the game was fun, but I can't help but think that it would be more fun if I were able to bluff convincingly. Any tips on working on my supposedly terrible poker face? Or should I call it my "Sheriff Face"?


It isn't as simple as a poker 'face.'

If you actually want to get better at hiding your tells and reading the tells of others, you should probably read a few books on the subject and practice what you have learned. I think the first step is becoming aware of tells in general and the next step after that is working on your own. This takes time, and there isn't a real quick fix. But don't worry, it is a skill, so it can be improved and it is also really interesting/useful. I mean, it doesn't sound like your wife is a poker pro or anything, but maybe she has a good eye for reading your tells. Here are some basic things to be aware of:

A) your posture/legs/body
B) your hands/arms
C) your body movements/motions
D) your voice
E) your eyes

How you carry yourself will send signals to other people, and an astute observer will pick up on this stuff (often in an A-E order). Notice how it isn't only the face that gives clues. You also need to be aware of this:

F) your patterns of behaviour

Anyway, I kind of didn't answer your question. Sorry mate! It is interesting stuff, so you should be able to find lots of info.
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A J
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Niquilibrium wrote:
That's actually very good ideas. I will see what info I can find. According to her, my body language gets excited when I am trying to fool someone and I get a subtle grin on my face. I didn't realize that I was doing either of these things. I always thought I was keeping things pretty well in check, but obviously I have a long way to go. I will definitely be looking into the psychology of bluffing and body language. Thanks!


One method is trying to trick yourself into believing that you're bluffing when you're not or vice versa. Takes some practice, but then you don't have to worry about your specific movements as much.

I find that worrying about my specific movements (eg. "gotta not move gotta not move") will just make me more nervous and awkward, lol.
 
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D.M. Jones
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Niquilibrium wrote:
That's actually very good ideas. I will see what info I can find. According to her, my body language gets excited when I am trying to fool someone and I get a subtle grin on my face. I didn't realize that I was doing either of these things. I always thought I was keeping things pretty well in check, but obviously I have a long way to go. I will definitely be looking into the psychology of bluffing and body language. Thanks!


Yeah, a lot of people focus on the face but body language probably has more clues to offer. Also, people tend to associate concealing the truth with the 'face' so they may only be aware of those tells.

If I had to give one quick and dirty tip to people it would be to be aware 'soothing/defense tells.' That is often a hand or arm motion aimed at reducing stress or anxiety. So, for example, a lot of people scratch something, stroke something, cover their throat or 'freeze' in an attempt to manage the stress of a lie. As a caveat, you need to establish baseline behaviors before relying on the truth of a tell too much. In general though, I pick up most of my information/reads on people by what the do with their hands. Conversely, I have a 'hand routine' that I try to stick to. It helps minimize my unconscious hand actions which may give me away. Like I said before, some people (most?) have an intuitive eye for reading tells, so even if someone isn't aware of a tell they might have a 'feel.'

But yeah, I think a quick google search and download is the best way to go. Seriously, I use this stuff all the time dealing with people. Some basic body language read awareness is kind of like having a minor superpower! And by minor i mean that my cape is a soiled hand cloth.
 
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Matthew Lindley
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There are two ways you can look at this:

1. Fighting the tells

When you aren't bluffing, concentrate on what you are doing. Do your usual actions but pay attention to everything; amount of eye contact, rate of breathing, pitch in your voice, which hand you use when putting your bag in for inspection...

Now, when you bluff concentrate on what you are doing. How does it compare to not bluffing? Do you maintain eye contact? Do you cross your arms? Do you speak downwards towards the table? Do you look away immediately after making your declaration?

One earlier poster says you shouldn't move as it gives tells - that in itself is a tell. If you are relaxed in one round but tense and stiff in another then there's a disparity which people will notice.

The trick is to do the same thing every time; the same motion, the same pose, the same rate of speech. People pick up on differences. Deny them these opportunities and you will be better off


2. Embrace the inability to lie

People know you can't lie. How do you deal with it? Deal with the sheriff - literally. Tell them there's 4 apples in the bag. And when it comes to inspection, strike a deal. Offer them one of the cards and some money. Let people know you're willing to deal.

A shrewd trader wrote:
"I see you're collecting bread. I have one which isn't of much use to me. How letting the bag go and you can have my bread?"


When you're the sheriff, you could say before they put stuff in their bags:
- Pay 8G and the bags will go through
- If everyone pays you 10G you'll let everyone's bag through, but only if everyone pays.

Once they see a few deals go through, you could make as much money on corruption (if not more) than you do on your legal goods.

They'll know to trust you as you're unable to lie to them -- apart from that one time when you changed your mind and made a fortune at the end of the game.

There are other ways of making money in this game, chiefly negotiation (read: bribery and corruption).
 
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D.M. Jones
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ThatNiceMan wrote:
There are two ways you can look at this:

1. Fighting the tells

When you aren't bluffing, concentrate on what you are doing. Do your usual actions but pay attention to everything; amount of eye contact, rate of breathing, pitch in your voice, which hand you use when putting your bag in for inspection...

Now, when you bluff concentrate on what you are doing. How does it compare to not bluffing? Do you maintain eye contact? Do you cross your arms? Do you speak downwards towards the table? Do you look away immediately after making your declaration?

One earlier poster says you shouldn't move as it gives tells - that in itself is a tell. If you are relaxed in one round but tense and stiff in another then there's a disparity which people will notice.

The trick is to do the same thing every time; the same motion, the same pose, the same rate of speech. People pick up on differences. Deny them these opportunities and you will be better off


2. Embrace the inability to lie

People know you can't lie. How do you deal with it? Deal with the sheriff - literally. Tell them there's 4 apples in the bag. And when it comes to inspection, strike a deal. Offer them one of the cards and some money. Let people know you're willing to deal.

A shrewd trader wrote:
"I see you're collecting bread. I have one which isn't of much use to me. How letting the bag go and you can have my bread?"


When you're the sheriff, you could say before they put stuff in their bags:
- Pay 8G and the bags will go through
- If everyone pays you 10G you'll let everyone's bag through, but only if everyone pays.

Once they see a few deals go through, you could make as much money on corruption (if not more) than you do on your legal goods.

They'll know to trust you as you're unable to lie to them -- apart from that one time when you changed your mind and made a fortune at the end of the game.

There are other ways of making money in this game, chiefly negotiation (read: bribery and corruption).


I don't think negotiation aspect is really separate from the 'read' aspect.
Having a good grasp on body language/tells also helps in the negotiations. It can give you a sense of how you should proceed with someone and how they are responding to you/your position. Information is power. If you can get a more accurate read on people and control their read on you, you will be in an advantageous position (which can help you get a beneficial outcome).


 
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Bill Grant
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I had a similar game, where I wasn't getting any of the contraband through for most of the game. And I also won. So while I think part of the game does involve getting this through, it's not actually the only part of the game.

Part of what contributed to my win was being very good at detecting tells. So even though I wasn't moving much contraband I was detecting when others were or weren't very easily. I had a ton of gold by the end of the game.

Now I said I wasn't getting contraband through most of the game and that is true, but I was able to get some through in the later game. What was different? I drank a little alcohol. I play a lot of poker and I find that having just a little alcohol (not so much that I am reckless but enough to calm my nerves) helps with my tells.

(BTW this is not an endorsement for people who don't normally drink alcohol, or are too young to drink alcohol, to begin doing it for game purposes!)
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Xelto G
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Niquilibrium wrote:
It also didn't help that she informed everyone at the table what my apparent tell is, during the game angry. So I only got two pieces of contraband past the sheriff. I had to start just sending legal goods through and make people think I was trying to sneak contraband through. This did score me enough points to squeak by with the win, and the game was fun, but I can't help but think that it would be more fun if I were able to bluff convincingly.

Sounds like you managed to bluff convincingly. Don't forget that you can bluff in either direction.
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