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Victory in Europe» Forums » Rules

Subject: Invasion where there is no port? rss

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Rick Westerman
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Can invasions be done where there is no port? Examples:

Nile Delta -- no city at all

Lithuania -- city is not on ocean/sea

Naples -- no port on south side (Ionian sea) but has port on other side

Spanish Morocco - no port on east side (West Med) but port on other side

Kherson -- no port on west side (West Black Sea) but port on other side

 
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Derry Salewski
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Hmm. The rules don't specifically say that I read. Maybe someone else found something more definitive?

They do say you can't move naval units somewhere that doesn't have a port. And says invading units are naval until they land. And says you can bring a naval unit to the battle too.



 
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John Griffey
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Can there be a Sea Invasion through a non-Port sea/land boundary?

There is no rule against it, so in the rules as written it is legal. But it would suffer special problems:

The landing force could not Retreat if unsuccessful (Rule 7.6).

The landing force, if successful, would likely be unsupplied in the Supply Phase.

If there was a Sea Attack on Naples through the Ionian Sea, and the defender had a Naval unit in Naples, the landing force could not land until it destroyed the defending Naval unit in Naples. If no Sea invader is attacking that unit, the invasion is doomed.

 
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Rick Westerman
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AnimalMother wrote:
... But it would suffer special problems:

The landing force could not Retreat if unsuccessful (Rule 7.6).

Good point. I had not considered that. You need a port in order to retreat/regroup.

This does bring up the question as to what happens to an invasion if no army unit lands in the first place? I suppose since the unlanded army units are considered 'naval' at this point then they could retreat navally back to a port.


Quote:

If there was a Sea Attack on Naples through the Ionian Sea, and the defender had a Naval unit in Naples, the landing force could not land until it destroyed the defending Naval unit in Naples. If no Sea invader is attacking that unit, the invasion is doomed.


Of course the naval unit could be destroyed by air in which case the invasion would occur. But I agree that the rules are clear -- but weird -- in this case.

Quote:

Rule 7.5 ... Invading army units are "naval targets" until they land, but do not count for naval stacking. They may land immediately after enemy naval units are cleared ...

FAQ 7.2 ... Naval units can only fight each other if defending/attacking the same coast.


So how does the defending navy unit actually fight the invasion force? The rules are clear that the navy defends but unclear as to how they would actually fight. The mind reels.


In any case my main 'use case' are the areas which are likely to not have naval defenders -- Spanish Morocco, Morocco, etc. Are they invadable from the non-port side? As John AnimalMother points out there is no rule prohibiting this thus it becomes another tool in our kit.



 
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Mark Kwasny
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I believe there is a rule prohibiting an invasion into a coastal area with no port. The rules (7.5) say invading units are naval targets until they land, which means to me they are treated as naval units except do not count for stacking. The rules (1.3 Ports) also say naval units cannot enter coastal areas with no ports.

So I would say you cannot invade a coastal area with no port.
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Rick Westerman
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mvkwasny wrote:
I believe there is a rule prohibiting an invasion into a coastal area with no port. The rules (7.5) say invading units are naval targets until they land, which means to me they are treated as naval units except do not count for stacking. The rules (1.3 Ports) also say naval units cannot enter coastal areas with no ports.

So I would say you cannot invade a coastal area with no port.


That is a nice chaining of those two rules in order to get to the ultimate answer. If would be nice if 7.5 said that the invading units are naval units until landing but I agree with your thinking that they should be treated as naval units until landing. Thanks for pointing out this reasoning.
 
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Derry Salewski
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westerman wrote:
mvkwasny wrote:
I believe there is a rule prohibiting an invasion into a coastal area with no port. The rules (7.5) say invading units are naval targets until they land, which means to me they are treated as naval units except do not count for stacking. The rules (1.3 Ports) also say naval units cannot enter coastal areas with no ports.

So I would say you cannot invade a coastal area with no port.


That is a nice chaining of those two rules in order to get to the ultimate answer. If would be nice if 7.5 said that the invading units are naval units until landing but I agree with your thinking that they should be treated as naval units until landing. Thanks for pointing out this reasoning.


you're welcome?
 
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John Griffey
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It would be better if the rule was clearly stated:

Sea Invasion is permitted only through Ports or Naval Bases.

Amphibious landings of small marine forces were possible without ports on the target islands or coastal strands, but landing of whole armies of 100,000 men and their equipment would be impossible without ports.

So that's how I'll play it by house rule.

 
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