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Subject: Expansions , expansions .. Y ? rss

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Andrewzgamez AzGzEz

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Why do they keep coming-up with expansions to certain games ? In my opinion it is because sticking with a proven-performer is an easier option than coming up with something original . If a good game , the likes of Carcassonne , is produced , well ..kudos to the creator , but that doesn't explain the neccessity of an expansion . I see the things in a similar light to those of sequels to popular movies . While Star-Wars may have been a success , that alone does not imply people are eager for more of the same . Much like the disco-dance scene , it was nice for a while , but you can soon over-dose on the crap . I think that game-producers should be looking more toward .. ' game reductions ' , .. sorry , but I am looking for an opposite of expansion , and that is the best I can come up with . The beauty of it is that no additional parts would be required ,all that would be required , in large part , is an amendment to the rules , and that alone would not be a money-spinner , which in large part , drives the economy . Games such as Civilization , monopoly or some A&A games could well do with a make-over . If you are of an incline to still enjoy games such as the aforementioned , then you are probably more in need of a life than anything . With so much available now via cyber-space , competition for the idle mind has become so much more fierce . Your thoughts ?
 
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Shane Hockin
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"While Star-Wars may have been a success , that alone does not imply people are eager for more of the same."

I guess you haven't seen the public reaction to the prequels and the announcements about the upcoming sequel. It's huge! Companies sell a lot expansions to popular games because people buy them. People *are* eager for more of the same.
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George Stewart
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I totally agree, although I am glad some games and variations of the games have been released, and some expansions. I just feel some are aimed at nothing but to generate more revenue for the game/company. I guess thats the world we live in..........everything revolves around the money aspect of things

Although even if they do just make rules changes they tend to re-release the game with new variations of the other things which again makes people want to buy it.

As far as Star Wars goes - I was excited for the prequels and was let down in my opinion. I am trying not to get excited for the new trilody but finding it hard not to!

MUST CONTAIN MYSELF!
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Donald Walsh
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Y? $.
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Christian B.
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The reason? $$$
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I think a good reason they keep making expansions is they make a lot of $$$$$$$$$$
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Rob
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As a completionist collector type I wish they would stop with all the constant expansions too. I'd rather have more different games than more of the same but when I read about how an expansion or three is a 'must have' or 'really should have been in the base game' or 'fills out the base game' I must have it! I also tend to collect miniatures based game expansions without question (Descent 2nd edition for example).
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Scott Fishwick
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robininni wrote:
As a completionist collector type I wish they would stop with all the constant expansions too. I'd rather have more different games than more of the same but when I read about how an expansion or three is a 'must have' or 'really should have been in the base game' or 'fills out the base game' I must have it! I also tend to collect miniatures based game expansions without question (Descent 2nd edition for example).

That sounds more like a you problem.
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Will

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In addition to the points that have already been mentioned for companies to like expansions, there is a reason for the customers to like expansions. If you like a system so much that you keep playing it, then eventually, you will want some additional variety, some new options. I would rather buy an expansion for a really good game, and know I will get to build on that, than to buy into a game that may end up sucking. Most of my purchases are either expansions or games that I have played, or at least seen played. Of course, there are some companies (cough*WizKids*cough) that mass produce broken, incoherent, imbalanced crap for blatant cash grabs with emphasis on power creep and no regard for quality (cough*WizKids*cough), but there are some games out there that have some really good expansions.
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Pasi Ojala
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Get the Imperial Assault Campaign module for Vassal from http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Star_Wars:_Imperial_Assault
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(y)es.

Most of my games get more variety and longevity through expansions. Games with some kind of story (even if only through varied events or effects) greatly benefit from added content without complicating the game with more rules.

It is also easier to add an expansion with a couple of tiny rules additions or mechanisms to a game everyone already knows how to play instead of learning a completely new game. So, it is mostly win-win to expand a current favorite instead of trying to find a different game that could have similar success with the group without feeling superfluous. (Why buy a game that is almost the same as a game you already have?) A new game should be different enough to the existing ones, have chances of succeeding (rated 8 or higher), and actually be able to get playtime in the group.
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Jason R
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robininni wrote:
As a completionist collector type I wish they would stop with all the constant expansions too. I'd rather have more different games than more of the same but when I read about how an expansion or three is a 'must have' or 'really should have been in the base game' or 'fills out the base game' I must have it! I also tend to collect miniatures based game expansions without question (Descent 2nd edition for example).


I'm right there with you. I was just starting to get into Descent. Thankfully I was saved. Star Wars: Imperial Assault has come.

I see an expansion just like a movie sequel or the fifth book in a series. A good expansion continues a story. How many of us stopped at the first book of A Song of Ice and Fire?

Yes it is all about the money. It would be nice if the artist were not constrained by money. As I get older it is becoming more obvious that whoever controls the money controls all. For that reason I like what kickstarter started out to be. If more independent artist and inventors have access to money the less big business controls.

Sorry about the tangent.
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Nicholas Palmer
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Broadstorm wrote:
In addition to the points that have already been mentioned for companies to like , there is a reason for the customers to like expansions. If you like a system so much that you keep playing it, then eventually, you will want some additional variety, some new options. I would rather buy an expansion for a really good game, and know I will get to build on that, than to buy into a game that may end up sucking. Most of my purchases are either expansions or games that I have played, or at least seen played. Of course, there are some companies (cough*WizKids*cough) that mass produce broken, incoherent, imbalanced crap for blatant cash grabs with emphasis on power creep and no regard for quality (cough*WizKids*cough), but there are some games out there that have some really good expansions.


This. I mean. I like new games. I buy new games regularly.

But if its a choice between a new game, or another expansion to one of my favorite games... expansions it is (unless I'm really really hyped and have played the new game but just don't own it).

100 games I would take a year to get them all to the table, and I'd probably only play them a few times each.

20 games with 4 expansions each? I could play each one 5 times as much in a year.
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Daniel Wünsche
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the real question should be, why arte expansions as expensive as a new game?
I would buy expansions more often, if they would be cheaper. but as my collection is very selected ans small, i often buy a complete new game for the price of an expansion.

i also don't like expansions which make the games take more time, than the base game.
 
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Will

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dawue wrote:
the real question should be, why arte expansions as expensive as a new game?
I would buy expansions more often, if they would be cheaper. but as my collection is very selected ans small, i often buy a complete new game for the price of an expansion.

i also don't like expansions which make the games take more time, than the base game.

That varies by game. Some games are $40 games with $15 expansions, while others are $40 games with $40 expansions, and others are both.
 
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Pasi Ojala
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dawue wrote:
the real question should be, why arte expansions as expensive as a new game?

The cost to produce them may be the same or less for an expansion, but because more people buy the base game than expansions, the markup must be higher on the expansions.
 
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Pete
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Manduwolf wrote:
Why do they keep coming-up with expansions to certain games ? In my opinion it is because sticking with a proven-performer is an easier option than coming up with something original . If a good game , the likes of Carcassonne , is produced , well ..kudos to the creator , but that doesn't explain the neccessity of an expansion . I see the things in a similar light to those of sequels to popular movies . While Star-Wars may have been a success , that alone does not imply people are eager for more of the same . Much like the disco-dance scene , it was nice for a while , but you can soon over-dose on the crap . I think that game-producers should be looking more toward .. ' game reductions ' , .. sorry , but I am looking for an opposite of expansion , and that is the best I can come up with . The beauty of it is that no additional parts would be required ,all that would be required , in large part , is an amendment to the rules , and that alone would not be a money-spinner , which in large part , drives the economy . Games such as Civilization , monopoly or some A&A games could well do with a make-over . If you are of an incline to still enjoy games such as the aforementioned , then you are probably more in need of a life than anything . With so much available now via cyber-space , competition for the idle mind has become so much more fierce . Your thoughts ?
You're clearly under the misconception that publishers make games and/or expansion for your benefit.

Pete (knows that's not their motive)
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Bryan Thunkd
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Manduwolf wrote:
While Star-Wars may have been a success , that alone does not imply people are eager for more of the same . Much like the disco-dance scene , it was nice for a while , but you can soon over-dose on the crap .
Trying out something new is very hit or miss. It might succeed and do well, but it might not. The reason that you see so many movie sequels, board game expansions, etc. is that the people making them are relatively sure that it's easier to make money selling people what they already know they liked. Certainly easier than making and advertising something new.

As much as you may have tired of Star Wars, there is a built in audience who is already sold on that brand. They could put out a new Star Wars movie without any advertising and people would go to see it just on their past experiences with that brand. But if they create a completely new space movie that no one has ever heard of before, they'd have to advertise the movie heavily to get the same sort of turnout. And even then, the movie would have to get good reviews for a lot of people to see it after the first weekend. Even if the next Star Wars movie sucks, there will be fans who feel they have to see it anyway.
 
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Will

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Thunkd wrote:
Even if the next Star Wars movie sucks, there will be fans who feel they have to see it anyway.


The franchise has already overcome the horror that is... the Star Wars Holiday Special.
 
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I'm just waiting for them to go full rehash treadmill and just start naming the stuff like "Star Wars Armada 2016: the Mind Blowing Sequel to Star Wars Armada 2015!!*"

*Warning: Star Wars Armada 2015 is not compatible with Star Wars Armada 2016 without using Star Wars Armada Upgrade Pack 2015+.
 
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Andrewzgamez AzGzEz

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I liked your reply , fair comments . Thankyou . Something I hadn't really considered .
 
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Andrewzgamez AzGzEz

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No , I guess I must have missed all the excitement that surrounded sequels and prequels ( is that even a real word ? )of Star Wars , probably because I didn't care for the original . I am not a fan of the Sci-fi genre at all . I did like the first Matrix and Jurassic Park .. can't think of any others off-hand . I feel I should like Lord of the Rings / Hobbit and Avatar movies more because they were filmed in New Zealand , and I am a kiwi , but they just didn't really do anything for me . But thanks for your comment .
 
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Bryan Thunkd
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Manduwolf wrote:
No , I guess I must have missed all the excitement that surrounded sequels and prequels ( is that even a real word ? )of Star Wars , probably because I didn't care for the original .
Star Wars has already spawned six movies with another one in the pipeline, decades of action figure sales, a crap-ton of video games (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Star_Wars_video_games), tons of board games entries on BGG (https://boardgamegeek.com/geeksearch.php?action=search&objec...), and continues to be a merchandising juggernaut to this day, forty years after the first movie.

I'm not sure why you thought for a second that it was a good example of people "not being eager for more of the same". It is the poster child of a money-making franchise where you stamp Star Wars on the product and it'll sell. (Just google Star Wars salt and pepper shaker). Seriously, I can't imagine a better counter-example to your arugment than the Star Wars phenomena.
 
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Andrewzgamez AzGzEz

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Thankyou for your reply . Certainly some truth in what you say . But I won't change my position for the following reasons : You live in the U.S of A . , I take it ? I do not . I have lived in Japan for more years than I care to remember . I have great difficulty sometimes in finding particular games , at a reasonable price . They just don't make any A&A games here . I have a number of Japanese games , but with cards/rules only in Japanese , I sometimes find it difficult to find a willing opponent . Actually , games are one of the few things that interest me enough to continue to try and get a better grasp on the language . I look upon them as a challenge . The problem is , that I have been doing this for over 2 years now , and there is so much similar terminology , that I get thru a set of instructions well before I would have really liked . I partook in a game group a few months ago , a very American setting, but in Nagoya . We were happily playing a particular game ( just can't recall what it was ) , and at its end we began talking about a number of other games . One of those was Dominion . Now I think that it is a great solid game as is , you can play it over and over , using different sets of cards that come with the core set . But then the cool-looking young guy said that he and his wife had that , and a number of the expansions for it . Y ? Cool -factor obliterated . If you liked the base game - great , but there is such a fantastic variety of other great games just waiting to be played . And if you are a SamLander , then you know only too well that you can get many a good game for little more than a song on the likes of BGG / e-bay . I bought Forbidded Desert a few months back - for less than one U.S. buck . And I did so by winning an auction . I thought that I would get things rolling by initiating a bid , expecting it to soon break thru my $5 auto-bid . The game didn't have the propeller though . But I had played , and enjoyed , the game at a group meet some time before . And low and behold , I won ! - with 99 cents . I was a little embarassed , and gave the seller the opportunity to withdraw from the auction , but he kindly said ' No , thatz okay , you won fair and square , and I can't sell it in a store as it is ' . It cost over $20 U.S. to have it sent to me in Japan , but I think it was still well worth it . I made do with a small yellow disc from an elementary school geometry set, cutting in a few grooves. Beats me why no-one else thought along those lines . My point though , is that those living within the 50 states have been blessed with such a great variety of good, cheap games . Appreciate that fact . Taking a risk by spending $5 U.S. on a game you know nothing about , but of which may be crap , ..
ain't it worth the gamble really ? Forget about expansions . Lead a better life .
 
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Andrewzgamez AzGzEz

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Thanks to you , and everyone else , who took the time to reply to my post . With such an abundance of things vying for the time of fellow punters , I was wrapped to see so many responses , and so soon after my initial post . Whether you agreed with me or not , just taking the time to read and reply was fantastic . Much appreciated . I was also on somewhat of a high , because I am a kiwi ( a New Zealander ) , and NZL had just won the semi-final of the current edition of the World Cricket Cup . This was a first . They had the unenvyable record of being the
country with the most semi-final appearances in the history of the competition . But they had never advanced beyound that . But that has now changed . What a monkey off our backs ! ( might sound a somewhat odd expression , as I live among Japanese , but it fits the bill perfectly ) . If you were wondering ... No , I am not an American , and I have never even been to the Americas , but in order to buy certain games , I am required to possess an American address . So I make use of that kindly loaned to me by a very good AfAm friend . Does the trick . I then pay him for postage to the Land of the Rising Sun , and help out where I can when his family come to visit . The same friend is , unfortunately , moving due to work / sport circumstances at the end of this month , up north Japan , so I had better try find a more satisfactory arrangement .
Regards
AnduMandu
 
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