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Subject: Through the Ages or Civ with 2 expansions? rss

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Robin
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Hi guys,

First, I know I'm asking a question that's been asked many times in some form.

However, I'm not sure how Civ compares to TtA with both the expansions...what do you guys think?

I have got Nations..I've not played it many times, but I didn't feel like I had a civilisation at the end of the game - when I built something, I didn't feel like I'd actually *built* it...it left me a bit cold.

This may change with more plays...but not sure.

So which of these games feels like you're building a Civ? Which one gives you the feeling like you're actually doing what you're doing? When you build, I don't know, a Wonder (or something that's big, but common to both games), which one makes you think "Yes!" and gives your Civ a massive bonus to suit what you've done for all to see?

Also, I realise that TtA is more of a management game than Civ...but is this still the case with it now that Civ has the expansions?

And finally, I have played Eclipse and Twilight Imperium III...I must say that I think I do prefer Eclipse, as it has the resource management system that I think just works better...although, again, not played them both massively loads.

With that style of play that I like in mind, would that affect which of these I'd prefer? TI3 is FF, and Eclipse more Euro, after all.

Thanks, guys!

Robin
 
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Jason Farris
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based n your tastes,

Pick up Clash of Cultures and its Civilization expansion instead of either of the other two

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Robin
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Smilinbrax wrote:
based n your tastes,

Pick up Clash of Cultures and its Civilization expansion instead of either of the other two



I hadn't even considered that...what makes this one more of a good choice (at least for me)?

I shall check it out, of course, just wanted to hear your thoughts.
 
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I consider both expansions to Civ to be essential. I'll never play without using both of them again.
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Robin
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commandercrud wrote:
I consider both expansions to Civ to be essential. I'll never play without using both of them again.


How do they affect the game? Do they tie up loose ends, or does it make it a different game?

I'm wondering if it makes it closer to TtA...
 
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TickTockRob wrote:
commandercrud wrote:
I consider both expansions to Civ to be essential. I'll never play without using both of them again.


How do they affect the game? Do they tie up loose ends, or does it make it a different game?

I'm wondering if it makes it closer to TtA...


Both expansions mainly balance the 4 victory paths.
They don't really change the game mechanics.
They fast up the game, meaning you can reach the victory faster, still as they include some new things, it doesn't really fast up the game as player will take more time to do their actions and think about what they will do.
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Milena Guberinic
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Hi,

I have TTA, Nations, and Civ and Civ is my favorite by far. Once I got Nations, I stopped playing TTA because they do have a similar feel. They are different games but feel very similar, only TTA is a little more fiddly to set up and play.

Civ, to me, feels more engaging and thematic than either of those and is a completely different game. It is a sort of race game with several win conditions, which is something I'm sure you already know. I, too, love Eclipse and there is a bit of Eclipse in Civ, I think. You are managing resources and building up a tech pyramid, and deciding what your cities will do each turn, etc. The game feels incredibly immersive and thematic. The military conquests feel like you are actually conquering the other player's civilization and the fact that you are building up your cities on a map also makes the game feel more thematic than TTA or Nations. I know I'm all over the place but I hope that helped. I love Civ. I love Nations too but Civ is just more fun to me. And Nations fired TTA for me.
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Robin
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Itchi wrote:
TickTockRob wrote:
commandercrud wrote:
I consider both expansions to Civ to be essential. I'll never play without using both of them again.


How do they affect the game? Do they tie up loose ends, or does it make it a different game?

I'm wondering if it makes it closer to TtA...


Both expansions mainly balance the 4 victory paths.
They don't really change the game mechanics.
They fast up the game, meaning you can reach the victory faster, still as they include some new things, it doesn't really fast up the game as player will take more time to do their actions and think about what they will do.


Well I think if I do get Civ, I'll definitely get the expansions...just makes it a bit of a dear do.
 
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Robin
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milenaguberinic wrote:
Hi,

I have TTA, Nations, and Civ and Civ is my favorite by far. Once I got Nations, I stopped playing TTA because they do have a similar feel. They are different games but feel very similar, only TTA is a little more fiddly to set up and play.

Civ, to me, feels more engaging and thematic than either of those and is a completely different game. It is a sort of race game with several win conditions, which is something I'm sure you already know. I, too, love Eclipse and there is a bit of Eclipse in Civ, I think. You are managing resources and building up a tech pyramid, and deciding what your cities will do each turn, etc. The game feels incredibly immersive and thematic. The military conquests feel like you are actually conquering the other player's civilization and the fact that you are building up your cities on a map also makes the game feel more thematic than TTA or Nations. I know I'm all over the place but I hope that helped. I love Civ. I love Nations too but Civ is just more fun to me. And Nations fired TTA for me.


Well that puts paid to getting TtA then...if it's similar to Nations, but perhaps less streamlined/longer, I don't think there's a reason for me to get it.

I am tempted by Civ...the other chap also mentioned it's great, especially with the expansions. It does look well up my street, and definitely has the detail to make me want to play it.

However, Clash of Cultures was mentioned above too...and that does put a spanner in the works! It does sound great, having had a read up on it...have you played that one?
 
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Josh Zscheile
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If you have some time before you want to make your decision, you can try out TtA at boardgaming-online.com with opponents from all over the world. I'd recommend a 2-player game to you because it plays faster, but it is up to you to decide.

I also have Civ + expansions and TtA at home, they are very different to each other. I considered getting Nations, but it really seems very similar to TtA, so I probably won't. Civ has seen some plays in my group as well, if you like heavy games, this one is for you. I have not played Cultures though.
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Robin
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Dagar wrote:
If you have some time before you want to make your decision, you can try out TtA at boardgaming-online.com with opponents from all over the world. I'd recommend a 2-player game to you because it plays faster, but it is up to you to decide.

I also have Civ + expansions and TtA at home, they are very different to each other. I considered getting Nations, but it really seems very similar to TtA, so I probably won't. Civ has seen some plays in my group as well, if you like heavy games, this one is for you. I have not played Cultures though.


I may have to give online play a try - how does this all work though? I do hear of playing online, but have never done it...I know you can buy official online versions of games, but are these ones written by fans or what not?

As you say though, I already have Nations, so perhaps it's just too similar.

Civ definitely sounds promising...I like heavy games, it has to be said. Cultures does sound great in its own right though.
 
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TickTockRob wrote:


However, Clash of Cultures was mentioned above too...and that does put a spanner in the works! It does sound great, having had a read up on it...have you played that one?


I have not played Clash of Cultures and I don't think I ever will because I don't like the dice-based combat. It's just way to random for me. I'm ok with it in Eclipse because I can nearly eliminate any luck of the dice by building properly but I don't think that's the case with Clash. People who are more experienced can chirp in to inform you otherwise. Also, it takes the longest to play out of all of them.
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Robin
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milenaguberinic wrote:
TickTockRob wrote:


However, Clash of Cultures was mentioned above too...and that does put a spanner in the works! It does sound great, having had a read up on it...have you played that one?


I have not played Clash of Cultures and I don't think I ever will because I don't like the dice-based combat. It's just way to random for me. I'm ok with it in Eclipse because I can nearly eliminate any luck of the dice by building properly but I don't think that's the case with Clash. People who are more experienced can chirp in to inform you otherwise. Also, it takes the longest to play out of all of them.


ahh really? I didn't know about that...hmmm, that is a shame...I shall have to look into this further (or hear what the others have to say).

Like you say, it's okay if you can mitigate it, but when it's just straight roles, that is a bit of a pain.

Civ is looking good then. I did like how Clash had hexes (even Civ the PC game has moved away from squares now) and a more natural looking board. Plus was perhaps not overloaded like FF games can become...

But it sounds like Civ does what it does right.
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Milena Guberinic
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Civ does what it does right. But do get the expansions. They fix the combat and really balance things out perfectly.
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Robin
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milenaguberinic wrote:
Civ does what it does right. But do get the expansions. They fix the combat and really balance things out perfectly.


I definitely will!

I had a read of the Clash rule book, and it does just seem to say you roll as many dice as you have units, and divide it by three...that's your damage. There are cards, it seems, that you can play, but that's about it...

When I played TI:3, that seemed to have a bit of a similar combat system too, from what I remember...it was just down to the number of units you had. You just had to make sure you had plenty of weaker units to take the hits.
 
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Carsten Jorgensen
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TickTockRob wrote:
milenaguberinic wrote:
Civ does what it does right. But do get the expansions. They fix the combat and really balance things out perfectly.


I definitely will!

I had a read of the Clash rule book, and it does just seem to say you roll as many dice as you have units, and divide it by three...that's your damage. There are cards, it seems, that you can play, but that's about it...

When I played TI:3, that seemed to have a bit of a similar combat system too, from what I remember...it was just down to the number of units you had. You just had to make sure you had plenty of weaker units to take the hits.


There is also a random element in the combat of civ. When you build units, you can be lucky/unlucky to get the good/bad units. And when you get into battle you can draw a good or bad hand of your units.

That you divide the result in Clash of Cultures is a great "upgrade" from combat in earlier games, if for example just 5'es and 6'es are hits. Here you get something even from the small rolls. Though you divide the result by five - not by three.
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Randor20 wrote:
TickTockRob wrote:
milenaguberinic wrote:
Civ does what it does right. But do get the expansions. They fix the combat and really balance things out perfectly.


I definitely will!

I had a read of the Clash rule book, and it does just seem to say you roll as many dice as you have units, and divide it by three...that's your damage. There are cards, it seems, that you can play, but that's about it...

When I played TI:3, that seemed to have a bit of a similar combat system too, from what I remember...it was just down to the number of units you had. You just had to make sure you had plenty of weaker units to take the hits.


There is also a random element in the combat of civ. When you build units, you can be lucky/unlucky to get the good/bad units. And when you get into battle you can draw a good or bad hand of your units.

That you divide the result in Clash of Cultures is a great "upgrade" from combat in earlier games, if for example just 5'es and 6'es are hits. Here you get something even from the small rolls. Though you divide the result by five - not by three.


With the W&W expansion there are no good and bad units anymore and you should notice which units cards your opponent builds and build the sort which trumps them.
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Robin
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Randor20 wrote:
TickTockRob wrote:
milenaguberinic wrote:
Civ does what it does right. But do get the expansions. They fix the combat and really balance things out perfectly.


I definitely will!

I had a read of the Clash rule book, and it does just seem to say you roll as many dice as you have units, and divide it by three...that's your damage. There are cards, it seems, that you can play, but that's about it...

When I played TI:3, that seemed to have a bit of a similar combat system too, from what I remember...it was just down to the number of units you had. You just had to make sure you had plenty of weaker units to take the hits.


There is also a random element in the combat of civ. When you build units, you can be lucky/unlucky to get the good/bad units. And when you get into battle you can draw a good or bad hand of your units.


I see...can you upgrade these as you go on? What's the point of having a random good/bad unit when you build them, or is it a perk?

And by hand, is it a bit like Game of Thrones or something, where you fight with cards that have values which you may/may not have already used?

Randor20 wrote:


That you divide the result in Clash of Cultures is a great "upgrade" from combat in earlier games, if for example just 5'es and 6'es are hits. Here you get something even from the small rolls. Though you divide the result by five - not by three.


Ahh I see what you're getting at...so it works surprisingly well, despite its simplicity?

I'm really not sure what to think, to be honest...both games seem to have their perks...
 
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ZdadrDeM wrote:
Randor20 wrote:
TickTockRob wrote:
milenaguberinic wrote:
Civ does what it does right. But do get the expansions. They fix the combat and really balance things out perfectly.


I definitely will!

I had a read of the Clash rule book, and it does just seem to say you roll as many dice as you have units, and divide it by three...that's your damage. There are cards, it seems, that you can play, but that's about it...

When I played TI:3, that seemed to have a bit of a similar combat system too, from what I remember...it was just down to the number of units you had. You just had to make sure you had plenty of weaker units to take the hits.


There is also a random element in the combat of civ. When you build units, you can be lucky/unlucky to get the good/bad units. And when you get into battle you can draw a good or bad hand of your units.

That you divide the result in Clash of Cultures is a great "upgrade" from combat in earlier games, if for example just 5'es and 6'es are hits. Here you get something even from the small rolls. Though you divide the result by five - not by three.


With the W&W expansion there are no good and bad units anymore and you should notice which units cards your opponent builds and build the sort which trumps them.


ahh okay, that sounds like it's sorted that issue out. And are the cards in question a sort of rock paper scissors type approach? Over simplified there, but based on what you said...
 
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milenaguberinic wrote:
TickTockRob wrote:


However, Clash of Cultures was mentioned above too...and that does put a spanner in the works! It does sound great, having had a read up on it...have you played that one?


I have not played Clash of Cultures and I don't think I ever will because I don't like the dice-based combat. It's just way to random for me. I'm ok with it in Eclipse because I can nearly eliminate any luck of the dice by building properly but I don't think that's the case with Clash. People who are more experienced can chirp in to inform you otherwise. Also, it takes the longest to play out of all of them.


Clash of Cultures combat is very manageable. You roll one die for every unit in combat and for every 5 points you roll, you get one hit. What this means is that you never want to fight with only one unit and you need to have overwhelming forces to win. Then there are steel weapons that give you a free hit against anyone without steel weapons and there are cards you can play to improve the odds. It's not 100% predictable but it is very easy to play the odds and stack the deck in your favor.

Clash of cultures excels at the dudes on a map thing over all the other games listed. It has an easy but varied tech system. The cuvs realky make your nations unique, and you can ohysically see your progress. Just build a size 5 city and you'll see what I mean. There is a simple but highly effective happiness system. And the ship movement system is inspired. It also has wonders with unique powers but they are tough to build and defend.
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Robin
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Smilinbrax wrote:
milenaguberinic wrote:
TickTockRob wrote:


However, Clash of Cultures was mentioned above too...and that does put a spanner in the works! It does sound great, having had a read up on it...have you played that one?


I have not played Clash of Cultures and I don't think I ever will because I don't like the dice-based combat. It's just way to random for me. I'm ok with it in Eclipse because I can nearly eliminate any luck of the dice by building properly but I don't think that's the case with Clash. People who are more experienced can chirp in to inform you otherwise. Also, it takes the longest to play out of all of them.


Clash of Cultures combat is very manageable. You roll one die for every unit in combat and for every 5 points you roll, you get one hit. What this means is that you never want to fight with only one unit and you need to have overwhelming forces to win. Then there are steel weapons that give you a free hit against anyone without steel weapons and there are cards you can play to improve the odds. It's not 100% predictable but it is very easy to play the odds and stack the deck in your favor.

Clash of cultures excels at the dudes on a map thing over all the other games listed. It has an easy but varied tech system. The cuvs realky make your nations unique, and you can ohysically see your progress. Just build a size 5 city and you'll see what I mean. There is a simple but highly effective happiness system. And the ship movement system is inspired. It also has wonders with unique powers but they are tough to build and defend.


I was a bit worried it was just glorified dice rolling, but it sounds a bit more than that.

So how would you compare CoC (thank goodness there's no K word after it!) to Civ? Is CoC (in fact, I'm going to call it Clash from now on) a lighter game, but that hits the same spots?

I guess my worry is that Clash and Civ are very similar, and I buy the lesser of the two...

I think I can discount TtA now though, as I have Nations already, and the consensus is that it's basically the same sort of game.
 
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TickTockRob wrote:
ZdadrDeM wrote:
Randor20 wrote:
TickTockRob wrote:
milenaguberinic wrote:
Civ does what it does right. But do get the expansions. They fix the combat and really balance things out perfectly.


I definitely will!

I had a read of the Clash rule book, and it does just seem to say you roll as many dice as you have units, and divide it by three...that's your damage. There are cards, it seems, that you can play, but that's about it...

When I played TI:3, that seemed to have a bit of a similar combat system too, from what I remember...it was just down to the number of units you had. You just had to make sure you had plenty of weaker units to take the hits.


There is also a random element in the combat of civ. When you build units, you can be lucky/unlucky to get the good/bad units. And when you get into battle you can draw a good or bad hand of your units.

That you divide the result in Clash of Cultures is a great "upgrade" from combat in earlier games, if for example just 5'es and 6'es are hits. Here you get something even from the small rolls. Though you divide the result by five - not by three.


With the W&W expansion there are no good and bad units anymore and you should notice which units cards your opponent builds and build the sort which trumps them.


ahh okay, that sounds like it's sorted that issue out. And are the cards in question a sort of rock paper scissors type approach? Over simplified there, but based on what you said...


Yes, rock paper scissors (+ one which does not trump and can't be trumped). With W&W also every unit has an attack and a health value. Units with more health are weaker and units with more attack strength die faster. On every unit card there are 4 values for attack/health and you can upgrade your units and turn the card to higher values (the cards are squared). In the base game there was only a combined attack/health value and you could draw a cards with base values of 1, 2 or 3. So it was possible to draw really bad units. As I said, since the W&W expansion, all units are good.
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TickTockRob wrote:
milenaguberinic wrote:
Hi,

I have TTA, Nations, and Civ and Civ is my favorite by far. Once I got Nations, I stopped playing TTA because they do have a similar feel. They are different games but feel very similar, only TTA is a little more fiddly to set up and play.

Civ, to me, feels more engaging and thematic than either of those and is a completely different game. It is a sort of race game with several win conditions, which is something I'm sure you already know. I, too, love Eclipse and there is a bit of Eclipse in Civ, I think. You are managing resources and building up a tech pyramid, and deciding what your cities will do each turn, etc. The game feels incredibly immersive and thematic. The military conquests feel like you are actually conquering the other player's civilization and the fact that you are building up your cities on a map also makes the game feel more thematic than TTA or Nations. I know I'm all over the place but I hope that helped. I love Civ. I love Nations too but Civ is just more fun to me. And Nations fired TTA for me.


Well that puts paid to getting TtA then...if it's similar to Nations, but perhaps less streamlined/longer, I don't think there's a reason for me to get it.

This is very inaccurate in my opinion. Nations feels nothing like TtA despite the superficial similarity in that they are both card-based civ games.

For me, personally, nothing else captures that civ feel as well as TtA. YMMV.
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ZdadrDeM wrote:


Yes, rock paper scissors (+ one which does not trump and can't be trumped). With W&W also every unit has an attack and a health value. Units with more health are weaker and units with more attack strength die faster. On every unit card there are 4 values for attack/health and you can upgrade your units and turn the card to higher values (the cards are squared). In the base game there was only a combined attack/health value and you could draw a cards with base values of 1, 2 or 3. So it was possible to draw really bad units. As I said, since the W&W expansion, all units are good.


So I'm assuming that, when you create a unit (such as a tank), you're basically adding them to this deck of cards that you'll then use when in combat?

Do you pick and choose what cards make up this deck for each fight?

It doesn't sound unreasonable now that it has these new additions you speak of...presumably, if what I've assumed is true, a tank added to your deck will be very powerful when up against a spearman due to the stats...
 
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Benkyo wrote:
TickTockRob wrote:
milenaguberinic wrote:
Hi,

I have TTA, Nations, and Civ and Civ is my favorite by far. Once I got Nations, I stopped playing TTA because they do have a similar feel. They are different games but feel very similar, only TTA is a little more fiddly to set up and play.

Civ, to me, feels more engaging and thematic than either of those and is a completely different game. It is a sort of race game with several win conditions, which is something I'm sure you already know. I, too, love Eclipse and there is a bit of Eclipse in Civ, I think. You are managing resources and building up a tech pyramid, and deciding what your cities will do each turn, etc. The game feels incredibly immersive and thematic. The military conquests feel like you are actually conquering the other player's civilization and the fact that you are building up your cities on a map also makes the game feel more thematic than TTA or Nations. I know I'm all over the place but I hope that helped. I love Civ. I love Nations too but Civ is just more fun to me. And Nations fired TTA for me.


Well that puts paid to getting TtA then...if it's similar to Nations, but perhaps less streamlined/longer, I don't think there's a reason for me to get it.


This is very inaccurate in my opinion. Nations feels nothing like TtA despite the superficial similarity in that they are both card-based civ games.

For me, personally, nothing else captures that civ feel as well as TtA. YMMV.


In what way is Nations and TtA different?

I guess at the moment I have a Nations vs TtA issue...I'm not sure just whether they are different enough to warrant owning both.

There's also the Civ vs Clash of Cultures...it seems Clash is a bit lighter, and very streamlined, and gives a good civ game feel. Whereas Civ is more complicated...similar, but just with more meat to it.

Then I have the two types above (Civ/Clash and Nations/TfA) and which of the two types is better...

At the moment, I'm not seeing much in favour of TtA...
 
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