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Star Wars: Imperial Assault» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Imperial Agendas and Rebel Choice rss

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Richard B
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There is a thread bouncing around in one of the other subsections about mission balance and outcome. Based on that and my own personal experience as an Imp player, I would venture that it is unwise for the rebels to choose the agenda mission and instead pick a side mission.

Reasoning: Odds are, you are going to lose the Agenda mission.

Given that, let's assume the probability of winning the Side Mission is high, that you have 4 rebels, you grab all the crates, and you DON'T get the winner-winner-chicken-dinner crate. I'm removing the constant reward you get regardless of outcome.

We have 2 outcomes to choose from now for (Imp,Reb):

(LoseSide,WinSide) = (Agenda , Reward + 200 Credits)

(WinAgenda, LoseAgenda) = (Agenda , 100 Credits)

So, choosing the Side Mission results in the best outcome.

Let's look at the other 2 outcomes that we negated due to the assumed probabilities.

(WinSide,LoseSide) = (2 Inf + Agenda , 200 Credits)

(LoseAgenda, WinAgenda) = ( ZIPPO , (4 x 100)+100= 500 Credits)

If you assume equal odds for both missions, it's a real toss up and the Rebels should choose based on how the campaign is progressing. However, anecdotal evidence would indicate that the first 2 outcomes are the most likely.

Thoughts?

Note:
There might be 3 crates on an Agenda mission, which would bump each of those by 50 credits. I tend to always post when away from the box, so forgive me if some of the numbers are off.
 
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Jake Conway
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I'm not sure your first assumption, that the Imperial player will most likely win holds true. According to the balance poll in the forums: here, it looks like the Agenda missions are some of the easiest to win.

However, based on our playthrough, I might agree with you that playing the mission isn't always the best idea, because it means you get one less side mission to potentially get rewards from. If it's a game like ours, where the first three side missions we got to see were all Ally missions, it might mean the difference between getting a cool reward, and only getting missions that you can't really use.
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Richard B
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My brain, though I was aware, did indeed flip that second poll result. My anecdotal evidence stands, but that's not worth much. I have only so far put Means of Production into play twice (separate campaigns, not cheating), which appears to line up with the poll.

I think you hit the other key point that was driving my gut feeling. With limited side missions, your ability to gain rewards as a rebel are limited.

There needs to be a way for Rebels to discard side missions if they don't like any of the choices. Receiving only Ally missions after you already have 1 can feel very unrewarding. Something like, pay 200 credits to discard and remove a non-imperial side mission from the game, drawing 1 new one in its place.

Sigh, a lot of it comes from the way I prefer to play and design games. I'm not a big fan of hindering others. So the options that suck credits from the players I tend to avoid. I'd rather both sides get awesome toys.
 
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Jake Conway
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I agree that a mechanic to replace the side missions would be nice. I'm not sure what form it could take and fit well though. Your idea of 200 credits takes away other potential bonuses from the Rebels, but could work still. Maybe a new character that could have a scouting ability upgrade that lets them remove a side mission card and draw a new one, or even draw three instead of two.

We looked at the numbers, and with a 12 card side mission deck, you are going to see 6 of them in a normal game, giving you a 50% chance of seeing any individual mission you want, which isn't that bad. If there are 3 missions you'd really like to see, you've only got a 12.5% chance of not seeing any of them, which really isn't too bad.
 
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Zach Hillegas
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I would go out of my way any day to play Means of Production. Imperial Industry is a BITCH. Adding stun to any unit you want, such as cheap basic troopers, is a nightmare for rebels. Stun is a pain in the ass, and not getting my own reward to prevent the IP from getting that one is a reward in and unto itself.

I didn't find the mission to be that difficult as the Rebels. Rushing the objective and double moving through the southern detour did it for me.
 
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Richard B
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Zach, what was the threat level when you played MoP? My Rebels opened the first door on turn 1 and I though I was hosed. They were all wounded by the time they got to the objective door. They didn't even manage to grab all the crates. It felt very 1 sided.
 
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Zach Hillegas
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Interesting. It was definitely earlier on in the campaign, in the first half. It was probably 3. So yeah, that probably does play a significant role.

EDIT: I also had the Saboteurs, so that's worth noting. Big help on missions like that.
 
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Staffan Johansson
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Illano wrote:
I'm not sure your first assumption, that the Imperial player will most likely win holds true. According to the balance poll in the forums: here, it looks like the Agenda missions are some of the easiest to win.


I'm a rebel player in one campaign, and the imperial player in another. In the one where I'm a rebel, the Imperial player bought a side mission - I don't recall the name, but the IP's reward was called "Supply Deficit" or something like that. The IP was all happy and stuff and expected that the mission would be highly balanced in his favor, and he'd end up with a nice card that screwed us over in one way or another.

That's not what happened. We ROFLstomped the mission - to some degree because of a quirky mechanic in the encounter that we were very well-designed to counter: one major Imperial figure wouldn't activate normally, but instead would get a single action after each rebel activation. We had quite a few abilities that allowed us to move in response to that figure moving, so he never got near us.

I'm fairly certain that the real "reward" for the IP when buying a mission is that the rebels lose out on the chance for a good reward if they take the mission, which sounds all right on paper. But in practice, what it meant was "IP spends 2 or 3 influence (can't recall) to buy a mission, the group plays the mission for two hours, and afterward no-one is really satisfied." As a result, when I'm the Imperial player myself, I will not buy side missions.
 
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Richard B
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BalooSJ wrote:
As a result, when I'm the Imperial player myself, I will not buy side missions.


I get your thinking on this. Make note that some of them are "Forced" and don't actually replace a side mission. Easy to miss that bit.

Also, Means of Production is well worth it and a genuinely fun scenario for the IMPs.

Also also, a lot of the imperial based expansion packs come with an Agenda Mission, so if you want longevity, I wouldn't completely write off Agenda Missions.

------------

Last night my rebels opted to run the side mission (Generous Donations) instead of MoP and got paid well. So, while I got Imperial Industry without any contest, they are likely better served with the early Credit injection and ability to see more Side Missions.
 
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Pasi Ojala
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Get the Imperial Assault Campaign module for Vassal from http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Star_Wars:_Imperial_Assault
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Just see what the reward is and then decide. (The reward cards are open information.) I would've passed Means of Production as well, did not seem worth it. But any forced agenda mission injects a lot of fun into the campaign, whichever side wins.
 
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Zach Hillegas
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a1bert wrote:
Just see what the reward is and then decide. (The reward cards are open information.) I would've passed Means of Production as well, did not seem worth it. But any forced agenda mission injects a lot of fun into the campaign, whichever side wins.


The thing I don't like about forced missions is that there's NO reward for the Rebels, even if they win. As an Imp player that won most rounds, there was a lot of whining from the Rebels when I proposed playing one. This isn't a huge issue if the Rebels are doing slightly well, but my rebels were none too pleased with the idea of playing a mission that they would get nothing for, even with a win.
 
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Jeremy N
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BalooSJ wrote:
I'm fairly certain that the real "reward" for the IP when buying a mission is that the rebels lose out on the chance for a good reward if they take the mission, which sounds all right on paper. But in practice, what it meant was "IP spends 2 or 3 influence (can't recall) to buy a mission, the group plays the mission for two hours, and afterward no-one is really satisfied." As a result, when I'm the Imperial player myself, I will not buy side missions.


Sounds like the IMP didn't play to the objective (go for the tokens).

Also, Probe Droids are king in Breaking Point, since they can fly to the center room directly (mobile), and have their self-destruct ability that ignores defense. As soon as Mr. Brawler comes out, you spawn a Probe Droid.

Attack on 3 fronts and no hero team can deal with it.
 
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