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Subject: Gen Con comes out against Indy's "freedom of religion" bill. rss

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Donald
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(See what I did there?)

For a change of pace, a story of a Corporate Entity exercising their Freedom of Association to let the Free Market decide if discriminating against ga... excuse me, letting people exercise their religious convictions will have consequences.

http://files.gencon.com/Gen_Con_Statement_Regarding_SB101.pd...



Cue TS shit storm in three...two...
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Indiana Senate Bill 101 wrote:
Sec. 8. (a) Except as provided in subsection (b), a governmental entity may not substantially burden a person's exercise of religion, even if the burden results from a rule of general applicability.


So, I assume this means polygamy will be made legal in Indiana, effective immediately?
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I was going to ask a question, but now I think I know the answer. I was going to ask what the state bill added beyond RFRA, but I think I remember that RFRA doesn't apply to state laws? Is that correct?
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William Boykin
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Trey's probably too busy defending against DC Comic's tyranny vis-a-vis the 'Batgirl' cover.

Or something.

Darilian
 
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jeremy cobert
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I think Gencon just rolled a nat/20 on a grandstanding check.

It's not really that bold of a move coming out against religious freedom.
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Darilian wrote:
Trey's probably too busy defending against DC Comic's tyranny vis-a-vis the 'Batgirl' cover.

Or something.

Darilian


I got to listen to someone rant about that on Saturday.
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Donald
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Indy shops are putting up blue "we serve everybody" stickers.

http://fox59.com/2015/03/13/local-businesses-use-storefront-...


jeremycobert wrote:

It's not really that bold of a move coming out against religious freedom.


But it's always nice to make a stand against discrimination.
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Matt Brown
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Have to wonder how many states would jump at the chance to host it.
 
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I was curious and I am sure others are, too. Here is Indiana SB 101 in its entirety...

=================================================

SENATE ENROLLED ACT No. 101

AN ACT to amend the Indiana Code concerning civil procedure.

Be it enacted by the General Assembly of the State of Indiana:

SECTION 1. IC 34-13-9 IS ADDED TO THE INDIANA CODE AS A NEW CHAPTER TO READ AS FOLLOWS [EFFECTIVE JULY 1, 2015]:

Chapter 9. Religious Freedom Restoration

Sec. 1. This chapter applies to all governmental entity statutes, ordinances, resolutions, executive or administrative orders, regulations, customs, and usages, including the implementation or application thereof, regardless of whether they were enacted, adopted, or initiated before, on, or after July 1, 2015.

Sec. 2. A governmental entity statute, ordinance, resolution, executive or administrative order, regulation, custom, or usage may not be construed to be exempt from the application of this chapter unless a state statute expressly exempts the statute, ordinance, resolution, executive or administrative order, regulation, custom, or usage from the application of this chapter by citation to this chapter.

Sec. 3. (a) The following definitions apply throughout this section: (1) "Establishment Clause" refers to the part of the First Amendment of the Constitution of the United States or the Constitution of the State of Indiana prohibiting laws respecting the establishment of religion. (2) "Granting", used with respect to government funding, benefits, or exemptions, does not include the denial of government funding, benefits, or exemptions. (b) This chapter may not be construed to affect, interpret, or in any way address the Establishment Clause. (c) Granting government funding, benefits, or exemptions, to the extent permissible under the Establishment Clause, does not constitute a violation of this chapter.

Sec. 4. As used in this chapter, "demonstrates" means meets the burdens of going forward with the evidence and of persuasion.

Sec. 5. As used in this chapter, "exercise of religion" includes any exercise of religion, whether or not compelled by, or central to, a system of religious belief.

Sec. 6. As used in this chapter, "governmental entity" includes the whole or any part of a branch, department, agency, instrumentality, official, or other individual or entity acting under color of law of any of the following: (1) State government. (2) A political subdivision (as defined in IC 36-1-2-13). (3) An instrumentality of a governmental entity described in subdivision (1) or (2), including a state educational institution, a body politic, a body corporate and politic, or any other similar entity established by law.

Sec. 7. As used in this chapter, "person" includes the following: (1) An individual. (2) An organization, a religious society, a church, a body of communicants, or a group organized and operated primarily for religious purposes. (3) A partnership, a limited liability company, a corporation, a company, a firm, a society, a joint-stock company, an unincorporated association, or another entity that: (A) may sue and be sued; and (B) exercises practices that are compelled or limited by a system of religious belief held by: (i) an individual; or (ii) the individuals; who have control and substantial ownership of the entity, regardless of whether the entity is organized and operated for profit or nonprofit purposes.

Sec. 8. (a) Except as provided in subsection (b), a governmental entity may not substantially burden a person's exercise of religion, even if the burden results from a rule of general applicability. (b) A governmental entity may substantially burden a person's exercise of religion only if the governmental entity demonstrates that application of the burden to the person: (1) is in furtherance of a compelling governmental interest; and (2) is the least restrictive means of furthering that compelling governmental interest.

Sec. 9. A person whose exercise of religion has been substantially burdened, or is likely to be substantially burdened, by a violation of this chapter may assert the violation or impending violation as a claim or defense in a judicial or administrative proceeding, regardless of whether the state or any other governmental entity is a party to the proceeding. If the relevant governmental entity is not a party to the proceeding, the governmental entity has an unconditional right to intervene in order to respond to the person's invocation of this chapter.

Sec. 10. (a) If a court or other tribunal in which a violation of this chapter is asserted in conformity with section 9 of this chapter determines that: (1) the person's exercise of religion has been substantially burdened, or is likely to be substantially burdened; and (2) the governmental entity imposing the burden has not demonstrated that application of the burden to the person: (A) is in furtherance of a compelling governmental interest; and (B) is the least restrictive means of furthering that compelling governmental interest; the court or other tribunal shall allow a defense against any party and shall grant appropriate relief against the governmental entity. (b) Relief against the governmental entity may include any of the following: (1) Declaratory relief or an injunction or mandate that prevents, restrains, corrects, or abates the violation of this chapter. (2) Compensatory damages. (c) In the appropriate case, the court or other tribunal also may award all or part of the costs of litigation, including reasonable attorney's fees, to a person that prevails against the governmental entity under this chapter.

Sec. 11. This chapter is not intended to, and shall not be construed or interpreted to, create a claim or private cause of action against any private employer by any applicant, employee, or former employee.

=================================================

So there you go. Interpret it as you will and let there be much gnashing of teeth, tearing of hair, and wailing while GenCon attempts to blackmail the State of Indiana. Not that they would be the first or last entity to try and do so...
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Damian
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Bearcat89 wrote:
while GenCon attempts to blackmail the State of Indiana.

That word doesn't mean what you seem to think it means.
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matthean wrote:
Have to wonder how many states would jump at the chance to host it.


Can't imagine you could find a harder spot to get to, anyway. Like, no cities have direct flights to Indy. I think that's even true for the cities you'd normally connect to Indy through - for people originally departing from them, they get flown to another city before arriving at Indy.
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damiangerous wrote:
Bearcat89 wrote:
while GenCon attempts to blackmail the State of Indiana.

That word doesn't mean what you seem to think it means.

It means to attempt to force or coerce an action from another party through the use of threats, Webster. Would you prefer "bully" or "intimidate".
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Bearcat89 wrote:
damiangerous wrote:
Bearcat89 wrote:
while GenCon attempts to blackmail the State of Indiana.

That word doesn't mean what you seem to think it means.

It means to attempt to force or coerce an action from another party through the use of threats, Webster. Would you prefer "bully" or "intimidate".

Would it be preferable had the Con not informed the state that they may find a different locale and rather just up and moved with no notice?
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CHAPEL
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I formally nominate GenCon to Austin, the Mecca of liberal gaming and gamers.

Disclaimer: please excuse the fact that Austin just happens to be in Texas.
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Ed Holzman
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jmilum wrote:
Bearcat89 wrote:
damiangerous wrote:
Bearcat89 wrote:
while GenCon attempts to blackmail the State of Indiana.

That word doesn't mean what you seem to think it means.

It means to attempt to force or coerce an action from another party through the use of threats, Webster. Would you prefer "bully" or "intimidate".

Would it be preferable had the Con not informed the state that they may find a different locale and rather just up and moved with no notice?

They are a business entity that is certainly free to take their business elsewhere. They really don't need a reason and businesses relocate every day. Life goes on. If enough businesses choose to relocate, then the government of Indiana may change their position. As mentioned above, this is just political grandstanding and a laughable attempt to bully a state government.
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Damian
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Bearcat89 wrote:
damiangerous wrote:
Bearcat89 wrote:
while GenCon attempts to blackmail the State of Indiana.

That word doesn't mean what you seem to think it means.

It means to attempt to force or coerce an action from another party through the use of threats, Webster. Would you prefer "bully" or "intimidate".

No it doesn't. It means to coerce another party through the specific threat of revealing damaging or compromising secret information.

"Bully" or "intimidate" would be the appropriate words for what you are trying to say, but you would still be making an inappropriate claim. What GenCon is doing is entirely appropriate and reasonable. Telling a government you don't like their rules and you are going to leave is about as reasonable a behavior as you can get, once the voting is out of your hands. What do you propose they do? Silently suck it up? Spontaneously move at the end of their lease with no word? How would that help anything?

If your strip mall landlord allowed a strip club to move in next to your daycare center wouldn't you explain to the landlord than you are at risk of losing business and would have to move to another location if he renewed their lease again?
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MWChapel wrote:
I formally nominate GenCon to Austin, the Mecca of liberal gaming and gamers.

Disclaimer: please excuse the fact that Austin just happens to be in Texas.



Tons of conservative gamers there, too. Gen Con may have to do without their cash, though.
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bjlillo wrote:
Donald wrote:
Indy shops are putting up blue "we serve everybody" stickers.

http://fox59.com/2015/03/13/local-businesses-use-storefront-...


jeremycobert wrote:

It's not really that bold of a move coming out against religious freedom.


But it's always nice to make a stand against discrimination.


They are making a stand in favour of bigotry with this move. Guess I don't have to go back to Gencon.

Then send them a letter and don't go. Seems like that would be the most appropriate response.
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Bearcat89 wrote:
damiangerous wrote:
Bearcat89 wrote:
while GenCon attempts to blackmail the State of Indiana.

That word doesn't mean what you seem to think it means.

It means to attempt to force or coerce an action from another party through the use of threats, Webster. Would you prefer "bully" or "intimidate".


Ah. So expressing their political opinion and perhaps acting on it is bad.

Got it.
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Personally, I think it is a bad idea to force a division in the game community over somthing that has nothing to do with gaming.

I'd be inclined to tell Gen Con to go jump in a lake over that even if I agreed with their stance.

We are a small enough community that this accomplishes nothing. It just creates an all or nothing showdown over political bs.

Fine.

You want it, you've got it.
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Donald
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So does anyone have a legal definition for "substantial burden of a person's exercise of religion"?

tstone wrote:


Tons of conservative gamers there, too. Gen Con may have to do without their cash, though.


Why are you trying to blackmail, bully, or intimidate Gen Con?

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Donald wrote:
So does anyone have a legal definition for "substantial burden of a person's exercise of religion"?

tstone wrote:


Tons of conservative gamers there, too. Gen Con may have to do without their cash, though.


Why are you trying to blackmail, bully, or intimidate Gen Con?



None of the above, since I neither have nor want any say over what anyone does with their gaming cash.

I just know what I'm going to do with mine. I can make a bet over what this fiasco is going to look like along political fault lines, but again, I have no control over it.

I just know what I will do.
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tstone wrote:
Personally, I think it is a bad idea to force a division in the game community over somthing that has nothing to do with gaming.

I'd be inclined to tell Gen Con to go jump in a lake over that even if I agreed with their stance.


I don't think it was GenCon that picked this fight? The 'status quo' would have been to have things continue as they were - Indy shops and stores legally required to serve potential customers without discrimination, and GenCon hauling in an audience of thousands from around the country and around the world to the state.

Then the state changed their mind, and decided that some business owners can now discriminate against certain clientele when they feel like it.

Can you really not see a difference for a gay couple flying into GenCon before SB 101, and having the expectation that they could go eat anywhere or stay at any hotel without being refused service, and the same couple attempting the same GenCon trip AFTER SB 101, and having to plan around shops and venues that may refuse them service?

That's not GenCon that made that change to potentially alienate part of their customer base, that's Indiana.
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Donald wrote:
So does anyone have a legal definition for "substantial burden of a person's exercise of religion"?

tstone wrote:


Tons of conservative gamers there, too. Gen Con may have to do without their cash, though.


Why are you trying to blackmail, bully, or intimidate Gen Con?



Don't think I didn't notice that you haven't given Trey a GG tip this thread. I won't sit by idly while you blackmail, bully and intimidate him like this.
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Donald wrote:
So does anyone have a legal definition for "substantial burden of a person's exercise of religion"?


The stuff I've been reading says that the Hobby Lobby case pretty much put the term back into play, so it'll end up being what the courts decide is should be.

What I find odd about Indiana passing this law is that I don't believe that sexual orientation is a protected class in that state to begin with. So what, precisely, is the need for this particular piece of legislation?

I hope that if GenCon moves, it'll be to Chicago. Lots of hotels here, guys! Great restaurants! Public transportation! These are purely non-selfish motives, mind you.
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