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Subject: Roleplaying element? rss

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Brian M
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Maybe I'm just being cynical, but what is with the intro to Battlelore talking about it combining elements of wargames, card games and role-playing games?
Role-playing?
Is there really any roleplaying element at all? Will there be ever? Seems highly doubtful to me. It just kind of seemed like a word added in to make it sound more all-encompassing than it is. Any thoughts on whether there is really any meaning to this statement?

(Yep, I know I'm being nitpicky. It just struck me and I wondered what anyone else thought )
 
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Ronald Estes
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I suppose it depends on what you consider role-playing. Whenever I take part in strongly themed games of the BattleLore type, I can't help projecting myself into the action--an implicit type of role-playing that, for me, makes the game a much more enjoyable experience.
 
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kurt benson
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Well, it might be thought of as an RPG aide rather than roleplaying itself, the hero in open field battle against a horde of orcs, could be used to depict those large scale battles that are hard to do in role play.
 
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James Forsythe
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I think the lore system / war council is what they are alluding to. You can choose between warrior, cleric, rogue, or Mage with each of these having various powers in the form of lore cards. And you can choose the level for each. Remember they said it combines "elements" of each, not that it is a complete RPG. But I can certainly see a campaign mode where your members of the council can go up levels between each battle. That would add more of an RPG element.
 
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J Battle
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Is there a campaign mode? I think sometimes the term RPG gets misused as a synonym for a game where you have the ability to grow a character, etc over a series of game sessions.
 
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J Mathews
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Unfortunately, it seems as though more and more RPG is becoming synonomous with 'fantasy game' (especially where video games are concerned, but that's beyond the scope of this site) even though those two don't necessarily have anything to do with each other (non-RPG fantasy games and non-fantasy RPGs). This is annoying from a variety of standpoints as I'm pretty sure RPG fans are disappointed with games like Descent, Duel of Ages, etc that try to entice RPGers to buy the game even though there isn't any RPG element. Also, I'm sure it bugs the non-RPGers who like the fantasy genre but don't necessarily like the connection with people who do RPGs. I just view it as marketing and research the games (preferably playing them first) before buying.
 
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Jorge Arroyo
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EventHorizon wrote:
This is annoying from a variety of standpoints as I'm pretty sure RPG fans are disappointed with games like Descent, Duel of Ages, etc that try to entice RPGers to buy the game even though there isn't any RPG element.


I can't talk for anybody else, but I'm a long time RPG player and I think both games you mentioned do have RPG elements in them. I think the DoA community is even filled with RPG players as the game seems to appeal to those type of players (me included).

But I think you're essentially right. An RPG game is much more than dungeon crawling and characters with stats, in fact, many RPGs don't even have those elements. The problem is that the word RPG is used to talk about a very narrow set of characteristics that are mostly found in D&D games...

Also I think companies use this RPG connection because there is yet no board game that really captures the feel of RPGs, and many people are expecting a game like this to be released... The closest for me was Magic Realm, but its complexity turns many people off...
 
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Chad Walton
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I think it is hard for boardgames to capture the one key element in role-playing games that makes them role-playing games: playing in character. I love Descent but the only time I'm "in character" is when I scream "LEROY JENKINS!!!!!" and charge into room before the rest of the group is ready...
 
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J Mathews
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maka wrote:
EventHorizon wrote:
This is annoying from a variety of standpoints as I'm pretty sure RPG fans are disappointed with games like Descent, Duel of Ages, etc that try to entice RPGers to buy the game even though there isn't any RPG element.


I can't talk for anybody else, but I'm a long time RPG player and I think both games you mentioned do have RPG elements in them. I think the DoA community is even filled with RPG players as the game seems to appeal to those type of players (me included).

But I think you're essentially right. An RPG game is much more than dungeon crawling and characters with stats, in fact, many RPGs don't even have those elements. The problem is that the word RPG is used to talk about a very narrow set of characteristics that are mostly found in D&D games...

Also I think companies use this RPG connection because there is yet no board game that really captures the feel of RPGs, and many people are expecting a game like this to be released... The closest for me was Magic Realm, but its complexity turns many people off...

See, and I don't really see the role-playing aspects of either game. In fact my preferred way of playing DOA (10+ characters per side) and Descent (controlling 2-4 characters, depending on the level) pretty much preclude any form of role-playing. It breaks down to maximizing your group to advance towards victory (much more important in DOA, which is an efficiency game more than anything else). Who the characters are are just variables to pay attention to, not roles to play. And while I see how RPGers might enjoy different aspects of each game, it really annoys me when playing with people who try to role play their DOA or Descent characters because it doesn't jive with my view of the game and ends up lengthening the game unnecessarily.

I agree with you in the underlying problem of there not being a good RPG-board game though. You'd think something would have come out by now.
 
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Nathan Baumbach
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EventHorizon wrote:
maka wrote:
EventHorizon wrote:
This is annoying from a variety of standpoints as I'm pretty sure RPG fans are disappointed with games like Descent, Duel of Ages, etc that try to entice RPGers to buy the game even though there isn't any RPG element.


I can't talk for anybody else, but I'm a long time RPG player and I think both games you mentioned do have RPG elements in them. I think the DoA community is even filled with RPG players as the game seems to appeal to those type of players (me included).

But I think you're essentially right. An RPG game is much more than dungeon crawling and characters with stats, in fact, many RPGs don't even have those elements. The problem is that the word RPG is used to talk about a very narrow set of characteristics that are mostly found in D&D games...

Also I think companies use this RPG connection because there is yet no board game that really captures the feel of RPGs, and many people are expecting a game like this to be released... The closest for me was Magic Realm, but its complexity turns many people off...

See, and I don't really see the role-playing aspects of either game. In fact my preferred way of playing DOA (10+ characters per side) and Descent (controlling 2-4 characters, depending on the level) pretty much preclude any form of role-playing. It breaks down to maximizing your group to advance towards victory (much more important in DOA, which is an efficiency game more than anything else). Who the characters are are just variables to pay attention to, not roles to play. And while I see how RPGers might enjoy different aspects of each game, it really annoys me when playing with people who try to role play their DOA or Descent characters because it doesn't jive with my view of the game and ends up lengthening the game unnecessarily.

I agree with you in the underlying problem of there not being a good RPG-board game though. You'd think something would have come out by now.


Actually, it's all up to the players in the two games mentioned before. We can't seem to play Descent without the adventurer players talking in-character and using stereotypical voices. That's a form of role-playing. And in Duel of Ages, it's the same way. I went to GenCon this year and watched a group of random people from all over play, and they all did some amount of role-playing (got in-character, talked with accents, etc).

Hell, I've even seen it done with the War of the Ring strategy game, Cleopatra (they had a rule you had to end your turn saying "Sadib" or something Egyptian) and Shadows of Camelot.

I can see the potential of the people playing this game in-character. That could be what they are talking about. There's some character control in the War Council.

I do get slightly annoyed with gaming companies who claim that their game will have an RPG-element because, as you mentioned, the game is fantasy related. My gripe is that any board game you play, if the players get into RPing during it (regardless of genre) can have an RPG element. Having to state this is fairly whimsical.

As I stated before, though, if the game's strength lies in doing some parts of it in-character, and I host a game with someone who is NOT trying and is overly analytical in a light game, I basically make them leave or quit. You can roleplay to some extent in board games, and I like that you can do that. Just wish they'd be less ... retarded ... with using the phrase in the game description.

 
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Mat zo
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it seems that for a lot of people RPG = dungeon crawling or giving level to a character.

for other, like me, RPG = Role Play, no dice, intrigue and interaction with a large world, like Amber RPG...

don't forget that D&D, the first RPG, is a evolution made on boardgame (still a boardgame ?).
I understand the confusion, even if now, with Descent, or Video game like Diablo or Wow, playing RPG like a dungeon Crawl is pointless.
 
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J Mathews
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emceekhan wrote:
Actually, it's all up to the players in the two games mentioned before. We can't seem to play Descent without the adventurer players talking in-character and using stereotypical voices. That's a form of role-playing. And in Duel of Ages, it's the same way. I went to GenCon this year and watched a group of random people from all over play, and they all did some amount of role-playing (got in-character, talked with accents, etc).

Hell, I've even seen it done with the War of the Ring strategy game, Cleopatra (they had a rule you had to end your turn saying "Sadib" or something Egyptian) and Shadows of Camelot.

I can see the potential of the people playing this game in-character. That could be what they are talking about. There's some character control in the War Council.

I do get slightly annoyed with gaming companies who claim that their game will have an RPG-element because, as you mentioned, the game is fantasy related. My gripe is that any board game you play, if the players get into RPing during it (regardless of genre) can have an RPG element. Having to state this is fairly whimsical.

As I stated before, though, if the game's strength lies in doing some parts of it in-character, and I host a game with someone who is NOT trying and is overly analytical in a light game, I basically make them leave or quit. You can roleplay to some extent in board games, and I like that you can do that. Just wish they'd be less ... retarded ... with using the phrase in the game description.

I see where you are coming from. I agree that some games, like Shadows Over Camelot are help when people 'get into character' (unfortunately, most of the times that character comes straght out of Monty Python). I guess where I diverge is that I don't see Descent or DOA, or BattleLore, being that type of game. As I said above, with Descent and DOA, I have more fun playing with multiple characters and it's really hard to role-play when you have 10 characters you are controlling. But to me, that is the best way to play DOA.

My annoyance with role-playing during board games is when it leads to sub-optimal play. For example, when a player in Descent rushes a room with his tank because 'that's what a tank would do' and there are obviously better actions to take, that I ask them to reconsider and if not, it's either them or me. I don't want to lose because someone 'get's in charcter' and kills the party. But if it is just talking in accents and such, or if they aren't on my team, I don't see any reason to try and quash other's role-playing. I just will not be participating because I play games for different reasons than that.
 
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