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Subject: Hit with more than one d10? rss

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Brian Torrens
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This may be a really stupid question, but when you roll multiple d10's on an attack roll, can you hit the same enemy more than once (if your rolls are high enough)? Reading through the 2.0 rules, they don't seem to say one way or the other.

A Mucker has 3 vitality. If the Soldier plays an Attack card and rolls 2d10 and both are 7 or higher, is that two wounds or are you only allowed to apply one of the dice to a target?

What about multiple target attacks like Harvest of Bones? If the Soldier uses it to attack and has two rolls high enough, could he apply them both to the same target? I know you have to use two different dice to hit two different enemy types. I'm just not clear on using more than one die on the same target.
 
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George Leoniak
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You only apply one die to a type of monster. So if you roll 2 hits on a mucker you only do the damage stated on the hero card once.
 
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Judy Krauss
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Tracker1 wrote:
You only apply one die to a type of monster. So if you roll 2 hits on a mucker you only do the damage stated on the hero card once.


That is usually the case. There are rare cases where a monster does damage per success.

Also, it's more complicated than that. Check the rules about hitting all monsters that you aim at with one die if they are of the same type (having the same TN -- defense number to hit). Also, you cannot use the same die for 2 different defense TNs. And, sometimes a monster does damage per Success not per hit. There are some examples in the Walkthrough (and I think in the original rulebook).

Sorry, I'm too exhausted right now to explain it clearly, but look it up again, and it will probably make sense, now.
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Brian Torrens
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So the Soldier can only effectively hit a type of monster once per attack? The Mucker gets 2 attacks on 1 target so I get the impression that he could do 2 damage on a good roll. It seems unfair that the Soldier can't do the same in return.
 
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Trevor Schadt
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Brian T wrote:
So the Soldier can only effectively hit a type of monster once per attack? The Mucker gets 2 attacks on 1 target so I get the impression that he could do 2 damage on a good roll. It seems unfair that the Soldier can't do the same in return.
Yes, a monster with two attacks can do their damage twice if both attacks land. Welcome to dealing with captains, they're not supposed to be pushovers!

Heroes do, however, hit all of a given type of monster (up to the limit of the attack being used, of course) with one success. So, for example, Riding the Edge can hit three Grubbers with only one successful die roll.

It's supposed to be difficult. It's supposed to be an uphill battle, against increasing odds. If it weren't, it wouldn't be nearly as much fun.
 
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Brian Torrens
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Got it! The rules talk about one success on a roll hitting all of the same type of monster (ie. Harvest of bones hitting three of the same type of minion with one success), but the rules don't say anything about hitting a creature more than once with a single attack. I am guessing there are combinations of cards that will allow you to do more damage against tougher opponents.
 
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Judy Krauss
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Brian T wrote:
Got it! The rules talk about one success on a roll hitting all of the same type of monster (ie. Harvest of bones hitting three of the same type of minion with one success), but the rules don't say anything about hitting a creature more than once with a single attack. I am guessing there are combinations of cards that will allow you to do more damage against tougher opponents.


There is also DoT (damage over time) like poison or fire that can be effective against monsters/lairs that have more health points.
 
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Trevor Schadt
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Brian T wrote:
Got it! The rules talk about one success on a roll hitting all of the same type of monster (ie. Harvest of bones hitting three of the same type of minion with one success), but the rules don't say anything about hitting a creature more than once with a single attack. I am guessing there are combinations of cards that will allow you to do more damage against tougher opponents.
The Soldier currently has one card -- Devastate -- that does more than one damage (in the case of Devastate, 3, which is enough to one-shot a Captain). The Brigand has two: Shadow's Reach (2 damage) and Shadow's Touch (3 damage). I believe the Battledancer (one of the Journeyman paths for the Soldier) will have more cards that do multiple damage.
 
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Ryo Akashi

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Brian T wrote:
The rules talk about one success on a roll hitting all of the same type of monster (ie. Harvest of bones hitting three of the same type of minion with one success), but the rules don't say anything about hitting a creature more than once with a single attack.


If you have an attack that can hit a creature more than once (say Archer's Orion's Tears), you will roll to hit, and if one hit succeeds, all the hits will score and deal damage.
 
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Trevor Schadt
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ryo_akashi wrote:
If you have an attack that can hit a creature more than once (say Archer's Orion's Tears), you will roll to hit, and if one hit succeeds, all the hits will score and deal damage.
This is, unfortunately, inaccurate. Orion's Tears is not an attack that can hit a creature more than once. It is a single Action that includes multiple disparate attacks. You must roll to hit for each attack that you make.
 
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MM
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ryudoowaru wrote:
ryo_akashi wrote:
If you have an attack that can hit a creature more than once (say Archer's Orion's Tears), you will roll to hit, and if one hit succeeds, all the hits will score and deal damage.
This is, unfortunately, inaccurate. Orion's Tears is not an attack that can hit a creature more than once. It is a single Action that includes multiple disparate attacks. You must roll to hit for each attack that you make.


Trevor - mind citing that (I will look as well). Pretty sure Ryo is correct. Only need one successful d10 for ALL arrows to hit on Orion's Tears.
 
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Brian Torrens
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I don't read it that way at all. The card doesn't give you any bonus dice... The Archer gets +1d10 for the bow and I am guessing starts with 1d10. So wouldn't you roll your two dice, apply the results to (possibly) two different monster types and then expend 1 ammo per target hit?

So if you had 4 ammo in the quiver (which is what you start with), and hit a grubber and mucker with your attack. You could hit 3 grubbers and a mugger, or 2 of each, right?
 
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MM
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Brian T wrote:
I don't read it that way at all. The card doesn't give you any bonus dice... The Archer gets +1d10 for the bow and I am guessing starts with 1d10. So wouldn't you roll your two dice, apply the results to (possibly) two different monster types and then expend 1 ammo per target hit?

So if you had 4 ammo in the quiver (which is what you start with), and hit a grubber and mucker with your attack. You could hit 3 grubbers and a mugger, or 2 of each, right?


Exactly assuming you rolled a hit for the Grubber and a Hit for the Mucker.
 
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Brian Torrens
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Mistermannindy wrote:
Brian T wrote:
I don't read it that way at all. The card doesn't give you any bonus dice... The Archer gets +1d10 for the bow and I am guessing starts with 1d10. So wouldn't you roll your two dice, apply the results to (possibly) two different monster types and then expend 1 ammo per target hit?

So if you had 4 ammo in the quiver (which is what you start with), and hit a grubber and mucker with your attack. You could hit 3 grubbers and a mugger, or 2 of each, right?


Exactly assuming you rolled a hit for the Grubber and a Hit for the Mucker.


Fingers crossed!
 
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Trevor Schadt
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Mistermannindy wrote:
Trevor - mind citing that (I will look as well). Pretty sure Ryo is correct. Only need one successful d10 for ALL arrows to hit on Orion's Tears.
Not at all. From the 1.1 Orion's Tears card: "For each ready Ammo card, you may attack 1 target within range." Note the use of the word "attack," not the word "hit," or use of any terms such as "Make an attack that affects 1 creature per Ammo." At least to my reading -- and if there has been an official clarification otherwise from MCG, I've missed it -- that means a separate attack (separate dice pool, separate hit roll, etc.) for each Ammo spent.

I could be wrong, but I believe this topic has been discussed before and that that was the conclusion. If I am wrong, the Archer in our party will surely be glad to hear it!
 
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MM
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ryudoowaru wrote:
Not at all. From the 1.1 Orion's Tears card: "For each ready Ammo card, you may attack 1 target within range." Note the use of the word "attack," not the word "hit," or use of any terms such as "Make an attack that affects 1 creature per Ammo." At least to my reading -- and if there has been an official clarification otherwise from MCG, I've missed it -- that means a separate attack (separate dice pool, separate hit roll, etc.) for each Ammo spent.

I could be wrong, but I believe this topic has been discussed before and that that was the conclusion. If I am wrong, the Archer in our party will surely be glad to hear it!


Well the archer is going to be happy.

You are correct on the wording, just not the proper interpretation of the word "Attack" (something that needs to be clear in the 2.0 rulebook)

The "Attack" is a Single attack. If you have three arrows, then you can hit three targets, split it across 2 targets, or hit a single target. The success of this attack is tied to the single roll (for the single attack) of the dice pool.

See this thread if you want to see where the designers weighed in.

With a full upgraded quiver, the Archer has one of the best single attacks in the Novice Hero's arsenal.
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Trevor Schadt
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Mistermannindy wrote:
ryudoowaru wrote:
I could be wrong, but I believe this topic has been discussed before and that that was the conclusion. If I am wrong, the Archer in our party will surely be glad to hear it!
Well the archer is going to be happy.
Excellent. Thanks!
 
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Jarad Bond
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ryudoowaru wrote:
Brian T wrote:
So the Soldier can only effectively hit a type of monster once per attack? The Mucker gets 2 attacks on 1 target so I get the impression that he could do 2 damage on a good roll. It seems unfair that the Soldier can't do the same in return.
Yes, a monster with two attacks can do their damage twice if both attacks land. Welcome to dealing with captains, they're not supposed to be pushovers!

Remember that 2 attacks on 1 target means two rolls of all dice. If you get all successes on the first attack, you still only deal out the damage once. Then you have to roll a second time.
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Jerry Tresman
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Mistermannindy wrote:
ryudoowaru wrote:
Not at all. From the 1.1 Orion's Tears card: "For each ready Ammo card, you may attack 1 target within range." Note the use of the word "attack," not the word "hit," or use of any terms such as "Make an attack that affects 1 creature per Ammo." At least to my reading -- and if there has been an official clarification otherwise from MCG, I've missed it -- that means a separate attack (separate dice pool, separate hit roll, etc.) for each Ammo spent.

I could be wrong, but I believe this topic has been discussed before and that that was the conclusion. If I am wrong, the Archer in our party will surely be glad to hear it!


Well the archer is going to be happy.

You are correct on the wording, just not the proper interpretation of the word "Attack" (something that needs to be clear in the 2.0 rulebook)

The "Attack" is a Single attack. If you have three arrows, then you can hit three targets, split it across 2 targets, or hit a single target. The success of this attack is tied to the single roll (for the single attack) of the dice pool.

See this thread if you want to see where the designers weighed in.

With a full upgraded quiver, the Archer has one of the best single attacks in the Novice Hero's arsenal.


Prior to Version 2 and the updated cards an attack was just a verb not an action so it didn't drive anything , lots of discussion on this.

VERSION 2

Page 9 FORM DICE POOL wrote:

Each attack is determined by rolling a collection of dice, known as a dice pool. A hero’s dice pool is made up of both hit dice and fate dice. The number of dice
a hero rolls for an attack is based on the dice pool listed on the hero token and additional dice can be added through equipped items and hero cards. It is also
important to note that a player may have to remove dice from his or her dice pool due to status effects and other abilities.

Therefore under the new rules each ready ammo card drives 1 attack.

Therefore for ready ammo cards would mean forming the Dice pool and attacking. They can be at separate or the same target.

For Two weeks now I have been playing only with the patch updated cards and version 2 rules. Wiping out everything else.

The keywords should drive everything.


If this is wrong Alex needs to chime in and we need to get a new definition of attack e.g. An action card or action card Combo only drives 1 attack (Dice POOL).

In which case Orion's tears would change it to a success per hit per ammo expended for enemies in range and that card will need updating.

Two different combinations of enemies/TN in range the dice rolled give two results that equal or exceed these, then the archer would score 1 damage per ammo on any combination of these enemies, all on 1 , split between them etc.

The latter is what MM's is saying.

The thread referenced to may be relevant but it is pre-version 2 Rules.


 
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Shawn Hubbard
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Dammit, this confuses things again. There are several monsters that say "2 attacks on a target", like the Mucker. Does this mean I roll 2d10 one time, and if either is a success, both attacks hit for one damage each?

We've been rerolling once per attack because we thought the term "attack" had finally standardized.
 
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Jarad Bond
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Sorry, Shawn! I hear you.

If a monster card say "X attacks on Y targets", you have to roll the dice pool X times. If any of them is a success, you apply 1 damage to each of the Y targets.

If a monster card says "1 Damage / Success", you get to add all the successful dice. So, if 2 of the dice were successful and it says "damage/success", then you apply 2 damage to each of the Y heroes.

"Attack" is not a standard term, I'm afraid. They use it to mean targets, actions, cards, hits, etc, depending on the context, and that sucks. They never fixed that to my knowledge.

Here's the recent discussion where I clarified this and MM was nice enough to validate it for me:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/18390969#18390969

Edit: Note that heroes are a different story - a hero only ever rolls one dice pool for a card (or a whole string of combo cards), regardless of what the text reads. That's the "golden rule" that one of the posters coined on these boards.
 
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