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Subject: swearing rss

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Paul DeStefano
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nextinline wrote:
As a Christian it took me aback to hear that a new Muslim congresssman wants to swear on the Koran rather than the bible.


In most states, there are options of 'swearing in' available to various religions during courtroom proceedings.

It only makes sense to swear by what you believe in, not what someone else does.
 
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Stephen Harkleroad
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Our particular branch of Protestantism specifically discourages "swearing" on the Bible. It's actually quite common in my area. The alternative (in courts and other places where it is "required" (note quotes)) is to "affirm," which supposedly has the same desired effect.
 
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Yeah, me as an atheist swearing on a bible in a court proceeding would be rather asinine. It's an antiquated process and useless process. How can this hold up in court. "well you sweared on a bible, so it must be official" is total BS, as it means as much a swearing on a Harry Potter book.
 
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Philip Thomas
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Erm, as a Christian I would be a lot more confused if the new Muslim congressman wanted to swear on the bible

Anyway I was all ready to point that we already have a thread about swearingmeeple

I presume atheist congressmen can just affirm, like here in the UK? (for MPs). We had a bit of controversy over that 100 years ago. Actually there are still problems, but they are more to do with the oath/affirmation being one of loyalty to the Queen, which gets some Republicans (Sinn Fein for example) annoyed. I guess America's nearest equivalent would be the Flag and you probably would want to ask some questions about a congressman-elect who wasn't prepared to swear on the Flag...
 
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Bela's dead and Vampira won't talk
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Philip Thomas wrote:

I presume atheist congressmen can just affirm, like here in the UK? (for MPs).


While I unfortunately don't know the answer to that question, atheists aren't exactly well represented in the political sphere here in the United States... I may be wrong, but I don't believe there are any "openly atheist" congressmen or women (I haven't checked the religious affiliations of the 110th Congress, but here is some data I could find on the current group --sorry about the poor formatting below):

109th U.S. Congress (2005-2006)
Religious Affiliation - Sen. - Rep. - Total - % of Congress - % of U.S. pop.
Catholic 24 130 154 28.8% 24.5%
Baptist 7 68 75 14.1% 16.3%
Methodist 11 50 61 11.4% 6.8%
Presbyterian 15 37 52 9.7% 2.7%
Episcopalian 10 32 42 7.9% 1.7%
Jewish 11 26 37 6.9% 1.3%
Lutheran 3 18 21 3.9% 4.6%
Latter-day Saints 5 11 16 3.0% 1.9%
United Church of Christ/Congregationalist 6 4 10 1.9% 0.7%
Stone-Campbell 1 6 7 1.3% 1.8%
Christian Scientist 0 5 5 0.9% 0.09%
Eastern Orthodox/Greek Orthodox 2 2 4 0.7% 0.31%
Assemblies of God 0 4 4 0.7% 0.53%
Unitarian 1 2 3 0.6% 0.30%
Christian Reformed 0 2 2 0.4% 0.04%
Seventh-day Adventist 0 2 2 0.4% 0.35%
African Methodist Episcopal (AME) 0 2 2 0.4% 0.58%
Evangelical Free or Evangelical (not further specified) 1 1 2 0.4% 0.5%
Quaker 0 1 1 0.2% 0.10%
Community of Christ (RLDS) 0 1 1 0.2% 0.05%
Foursquare Gospel 1 0 1 0.2% 0.10%
Nazarene 0 1 1 0.2% 0.26%
United Brethren in Christ 0 1 1 0.2% 0.01%
Scientologist 0 1 1 0.2% .019%
Community Church 0 1 1 0.2% N.A.
McLean Bible Church 1 0 1 0.2% 0.005%
"Protestant" (not further specified) 1 20 21 3.9% 2.2%
"Christian" (not further specified) 0 5 5 0.9% 6.8%
unspecified 0 4 4 0.7% 13.2%
TOTAL 100 435 535 100.0%

So I think four "unspecifieds" is the closest we have. Basically, (and quite sadly, in my opinion) admitting to atheism is essentially a death sentence for any major political aspirations in this country.

In fact, atheists are pretty unaccepted in the US in general: http://www.ur.umn.edu/FMPro?-db=releases&-lay=web&-format=um...
 
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Nairb Attobas
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There's a member of congress who's a Scientologist?!

*shudder*
 
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M G
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MWChapel wrote:
How can this hold up in court. "well you sweared on a bible, so it must be official" is total BS, as it means as much a swearing on a Harry Potter book.


Not to my wife, she’s a total Harry Potter nut.
 
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ben_ethus wrote:
There's a member of congress who's a Scientologist?!

*shudder*


2 Seventh-day Adventists?

*double shudder*
 
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Louise Holden
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One of the key differences between the US and UK. I can't find even an partial list of MPs' religious affiliations.

There are a lot of Christians in the cabinet, enough to be the subject of frequent comment(and concern), but that is still nowhere near all of them. There are plenty of declared atheist/humanist MPs as well, together with around four Muslim MPs and 50 Jewish MPs. There are at least one each of Hindu and Sikh MPs as well but I couldn't find out how many. And a good number who don't consider their religion any of the voters' business.

The idea of having across the board Christian representatives seems very odd from here, but then we have a very different religious demographic among voters.

The other thing that struck me as odd (without intending it as a criticism, because I suspect it's another cultural difference thing) was Janice's comment in relation to the Muslim congressman that Muslims want to have a voice in democracy since they can't get democracy in their own country. Here it would be considered outrageously provocative to suggest, for instance that British Muslim voters or MPs had any other country to which they belonged by virtue of being Muslim or that they didn't belong as much to the UK as Christians or humanists. Maybe again a consequence of our having much less of a overwhelmingly singular religious affiliation.

I'm always fascinated by these differences. Because our language is (virtually) identical, and a lot of our cultural icons- TV, films, books, brands- are the same its very easy to think that we have very similar lives with the exception of free health care for us and more air conditioning for the US. And then something (its often, but not always, religion) comes up and it becomes apparent just how different the underlying cultures are.
 
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Jeff Hinrickson
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MWChapel wrote:
ben_ethus wrote:
There's a member of congress who's a Scientologist?!

*shudder*


2 Seventh-day Adventists?

*double shudder*


What the hell is a Seventh-Day Adventist?
 
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jjloc wrote:


What the hell is a Seventh-Day Adventist?


They're the ones that believe in literal sense of the bible. That the world is 5000 years old, that fossil were put there by god to test the faith, etc. Scary stuff.
 
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Paul DeStefano
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MWChapel wrote:
jjloc wrote:


What the hell is a Seventh-Day Adventist?


They're the ones that believe in literal sense of the bible. That the world is 5000 years old, that fossil were put there by god to test the faith, etc. Scary stuff.


Of course, many major sects of Judaism belive the same.
 
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Swearing in (these days) is like getting married in a church. You can get married wherever or however you want, but you're not legally married until you file the proper documents with the G. Similarly, swearing in means nothing in a legal sense, but perjuring yourself in court will get you in big trouble.
 
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Brian Rowe
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Janice,

As one of the many Minnesotans who voted for Mr. Ellison, I was starting to feel a little concerned about your position in the first lines of your post. But further reading proved fruitful, and I'm glad that you see the diversity of religion in our congressional representation as a Good Thing.

Brava, positively good show. I'd only wish more who describe themselves as following a Christian faith shared a similar open-mindedness.

Respectfully,

Brian
 
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Aaron Tubb
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There are four 'unspecified's?!?

*triple shudder*


 
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Moses and Israel's wandering through the desert would make an interesting game. Fall into sin, move back two spaces or something. Population loss due to complaining. The goal would be to get Moses to the promised land alive.

David and Goliath would be interesting to game, Goliath with high strength and armor factors, David with quickness, armed with a projectile weapon. You'd probably have to roll eyes or something to get the forehead shot necessary to topple the giant.

Maybe this concept has already entered game form. Maybe it's time for a new thread, "Games with a religious theme?"

 
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John O'Haver
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next,

I agree a person should be permitted to swear or affirm his or her honesty on something he or she believes in. That does bring to mind the bumper sticker or T-shirt slogan.

A man has to believe in something and I believe I'll have another drink.

There is some comedic riff there about swearing on a bottle of whiskey and then taking the Fifth but I wouldn't point it out.


Quote:
Basically, (and quite sadly, in my opinion) admitting to atheism is essentially a death sentence for any major political aspirations in this country.

In fact, atheists are pretty unaccepted in the US in general: http://www.ur.umn.edu/FMPro?-db=releases&-lay=web&-format=um...



Excerpt from the above link.

"Americans rate atheists below Muslims, recent immigrants, gays and lesbians and other minority groups in “sharing their vision of American society.” Atheists are also the minority group most Americans are least willing to allow their children to marry.

Even though atheists are few in number, not formally organized and relatively hard to publicly identify, they are seen as a threat to the American way of life by a large portion of the American public."



I didn't know that. The phrase that amuses me though is "relatively hard to publicly identify."

Relatively hard? As compared to Muslims, recent immigrants, gays and lesbians? Or Baptists, Catholics, Unitarians or Lutherans? Or what?



 
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It means we're like Batman.

I AM THE NIGHT.

WHOOSH
 
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Geosphere wrote:
MWChapel wrote:
jjloc wrote:


What the hell is a Seventh-Day Adventist?


They're the ones that believe in literal sense of the bible. That the world is 5000 years old, that fossil were put there by god to test the faith, etc. Scary stuff.


Of course, many major sects of Judaism belive the same.


It's statements like that one which make many major Jews think you have a large hat inside your mouth through which you speak.
 
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Beth Raphael
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MisterCranky wrote:
Geosphere wrote:
MWChapel wrote:
jjloc wrote:


What the hell is a Seventh-Day Adventist?


They're the ones that believe in literal sense of the bible. That the world is 5000 years old, that fossil were put there by god to test the faith, etc. Scary stuff.


Of course, many major sects of Judaism belive the same.


It's statements like that one which make many major Jews think you have a large hat inside your mouth through which you speak.


Being born and raised Jewish and raising my daughter Jewish that is the funniest thing I have ever heard. We believe in dinosaurs!!! lol
That must be one interesting sect.
 
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The Steak Fairy
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nextinline wrote:
Now someone needs to offer some proof. I think you're just cranky enough, mister, to do it. Are you absolutely sure?
(also, you do know that there are Jewish Christians, but I don't know if Geosphere was talking about them?)

hugs,
Janice


I doubt even Geosphere knows whom he was talking about. When I understand his definitions of "many" and "major" (neither of which I'm predisposed to accept) then maybe there's a discussion there. But I'm way too cranky to have it.
 
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Quote:
Interesting. Maybe it has something to do with life and death.

Religious people feel that Life resides within them due to their belief in God.
What would happen if you were religious and you went to your local mall with your daughter of marriagable age and some drooling zombie makes a pass?
Would you want your daughter to marry a ZOMBIE?

What if some zombie comes up to you with a campaign button and wants your support? What do you really have in common? Do you eat human flesh? Probably not.

Okay, I'm trying to be funny (in an odd kind of way) but there's some truth in there as it pertains to Believing... just different worlds and expectations. My guess.

hugs,
Janice


Seriously, are you kidding me? You are kidding me right? You can't be serious.
 
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MWChapel wrote:
ben_ethus wrote:
There's a member of congress who's a Scientologist?!

*shudder*


2 Seventh-day Adventists?

*double shudder*


Congress needs more Quakers.

 
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We'll have a Jewish female black lesbian quadraplegic president before we'll have an atheist one. Americans have these ridiculous notions about atheists and what we're like. Apparently we spend all day raping and eating babies because of course, no God means we can do whatever we want. Personally, I'm of the opinion that if the only thing that makes you stop raping people is the thought of punishment when you die, you're one scary dude.
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pronoblem baalberith
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Legomancer wrote:
We'll have a Jewish female black lesbian quadraplegic president before we'll have an atheist one.


Reminds me of a friend of mine and his band from way back when, The Black Jewish Homos. That did not describe all the members, only the bass / lead-vocalist with pink dreadlocks. Good stuff.
 
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